lineman school vs jatc

[2WDKING]

i wouled like to see an article on the pros and cons of doing an apprenticeship vs lineman school article in powerlineman magazine! any comments i am in this boat myself

[T-Man]

The way I see our Apprenticship laid out compared to a line school, the line school teaches all the math and a broad section of the indusrty. They teach you to climb somewhat. They also teach skills a person could use beyond line work. When you come here we teach you the way we do line work.

Most of our new apps can't hang a service in 20 min at first but they can tell you how a substation works. . .They can't tell you what connectors are for which wire or the grip sizes. . .

well let me tell you brother we aint sending you out to build substations and power plants, we need you to grunt and grunt good and do some service work, work your way up the ladder.

Don't get me wrong line school people have a lot of talent and in most cases can climb a wee bit but they do not know how to do the work the line crews do.

Example: my partner just told me he saw some apps hanging arms at their school as a demo for the interested Utilities. . . these guys were putting the bolt with a half round washer thru the back of pole moving their belt up to hold the bolt then trying to slide the xarm on to the bolt. Maybe some of you do it that way. . .we don't, we put the bolt thru the xarm and heft the arm and bolt into the hole in one motion no monkeying around.

So while I think a utility likes the fact you spent time learning something and they prefer hiring someone with "Training" it's the gumption part were looking for. .when the rubber hits the road the apprentiship and schooling we do takes that material and makes linemen out of em. . .

Hey if I'm wrong let me know. . .I'm flexible.

T

[MI-Lineman]

The way I see our Apprenticship laid out compared to a line school, the line school teaches all the math and a broad section of the indusrty. They teach you to climb somewhat. They also teach skills a person could use beyond line work. When you come here we teach you the way we do line work.

Most of our new apps can't hang a service in 20 min at first but they can tell you how a substation works. . .They can't tell you what connectors are for which wire or the grip sizes. . .

well let me tell you brother we aint sending you out to build substations and power plants, we need you to grunt and grunt good and do some service work, work your way up the ladder.

Don't get me wrong line school people have a lot of talent and in most cases can climb a wee bit but they do not know how to do the work the line crews do.

Example: my partner just told me he saw some apps hanging arms at their school as a demo for the interested Utilities. . . these guys were putting the bolt with a half round washer thru the back of pole moving their belt up to hold the bolt then trying to slide the xarm on to the bolt. Maybe some of you do it that way. . .we don't, we put the bolt thru the xarm and heft the arm and bolt into the hole in one motion no monkeying around.

So while I think a utility likes the fact you spent time learning something and they prefer hiring someone with "Training" it's the gumption part were looking for. .when the rubber hits the road the apprentiship and schooling we do takes that material and makes linemen out of em. . .

Hey if I'm wrong let me know. . .I'm flexible.

T

Hey T-Man, you're right-on with this one! I had the PLEASURE (sarcasm) of being an "associate" (big term for teachers aid) instructor at a line school program with a local college and our company. This is just another way for the companies to save money in training! They don't have to pay a kid in climbing school, ground school, CDL, First Aid, etc, etc. Most of these kids got hired here and some struggled bad!

The class was poorly ran, underfunded, and just a big p.r. circus. But it's going to be the new standard everywhere I'm afraid!

[tramp67]

Ha! Others out there who believe the arm bolt should go in from the arm side, rather than the back of the pole! One of those many construction details that vary from one location to the next. Not only does your way make more sense in the original installation, T-man, but it sure makes replacing the arm much easier. Take the nut off the old bolt, drive it halfway through the pole, and place the new arm with the glass on it, and a new bolt on the opposite side of the pole. Drive the new bolt all the way in, the conductors rest on the new glass, and the ties keep the old arm from falling to the ground. What a concept! I'm sure you've done that trick many times, T-man, but it's pretty hard to do when someone puts the bolt in from the opposite side of the pole that the arm is on. Another benefit is the unthreaded part of the bolt is much stronger, keeping the arm from racking around as easily, which also makes driving a bent bolt all the way through the pole very difficult. Sorry, though, t-man, you can't blame that one on the schools as much as what the utilities want the schools to teach.
Personally, I think a combination of line school training followed by the NJATC apprenticeship is the way to go.

[markwho]

Nice posts guys.In my opinion you can't compare the two. The line school should just be in addition to an apprenticeship. Although you may learn quite a bit at school, they should probably still grunt for at least a year also.

[WCLR]

JATC all day over line schools. Why skip on the job training when this job has to be learned ON the job? You cant learn linework in a classroom.

[climbsomemore]

Down here in OK some of the munis have hire out of the schools. The bigger towns have just worked the kids into the regular program. The smaller (real small) towns hired the guy as the superintenent (tounge in cheek but truer than I'd care to admit)

If you can go right to a muni or IBEW local and get paid to learn from Day 1 you will be money ahead.

[climbsomemore]

Consumers Energy and some of the other companies in the upper midwest want the bolt through the arm.... claim the arm carries on the weaker threaded part of the bolt.

I can see this being a problem with the fat old "timber" crossarms or on some transmission details... but a standard arm with #2 Al? C'mon.

If a 5/8" bolt wont keep a cross arm on a pole... try a 3/4" if your that worried about things breaking.

[Highplains Drifter]

Back in the dark ages I think bolts where tooled where the new ones look like they roll the thread on them. If you look at a 5/8ths bolt the threads are actually thicker than the shank. A 5/8ths nut from the past will be to small for today’s 5/8ths bolt. A couple of years ago on a wreck out, I had forgotten what the old D.As looked like, they where not all thread like today’s but only had about 8” of thread on both ends. So IMHO I feel with the threads thicker than the shank that the threads are now stronger or just as strong.

[Lineman1904]

I just finished the ELP program at Northwest linemans college, California. Also i took the NCCCO crane cert class offered there. I have been working for a contractor as a grunt hand digging pole holes as well as digging and setting anchors for the local utility for the last three years. It didnt take long for me to decide that i wanted to become a real Lineman. I am a IBEW member with 4000 hours of ground time. So now here i am with my certs,CDL and ground time waiting for the books to start moving and or JATC to resume accepting apps. I believe that when this happens,the ELP cert,crane cert, CDL and ground time could give me some prefrence over alot of other applicants. I had nothing to lose by going to line school and im glad i did it.