Questions on different practices?

[Ryan Zito]

I'm a journeyman from First Energy( Ohio Edison ), out of Akron, Ohio. I'm on the executive board of our Union, and also on the Union Safety Committee. We recently had a blow out with the company over what we felt was a safety violation based on our past work practices. A apprentice lineman B was given a direct order by a foreman to make repairs on underground primary cable that was faulted. The cable was grounded, but there was another energized cable in the ditch with the faulted cable. They were approximetely 3-6 inches from one another. The other cable also had gone bad in the past because there was a splice in the enegized cable where the faulted cable was excevated. Our work practices have always been not to get in a ditch with enegized underground conductors. We have recieved a standoff of all such activity after a lengthy safety invesigation with upper company officials. Being a safety committee member, I can foresee this problem comming up again. I have seached many of the OSHA information and other company information, but info is vauge at best. I would appreciate any info either way, of what your people or companies do.

Thanks,
Ryan Zito ryanzito74@yahoo.com

[Lineman North Florida]

Seeing as how one primary cable had already faulted and had a previous splice in it, there is a very good chance that that is the reason for the second burnout, hence possibly doing damage to the other cable again, I would'nt care what the company said it's a matter of working safe and if they wanted it fixed I would have de-energized the other cable, tested for dead and grounded and then spliced it.There is no reason that I can see for anyone to want you to do it any other way, I can only guess that by killing the other cable it was going to take some lights out, but so be it, it's not like it's going to take a long outage to do a URD splice anyway. Sounds like you know the right thing to do,stick to your guns and keep those apprentice's safe.

[Edge]

I'm a journeyman from First Energy( Ohio Edison ), out of Akron, Ohio. I'm on the executive board of our Union, and also on the Union Safety Committee. We recently had a blow out with the company over what we felt was a safety violation based on our past work practices. A apprentice lineman B was given a direct order by a foreman to make repairs on underground primary cable that was faulted. The cable was grounded, but there was another energized cable in the ditch with the faulted cable. They were approximetely 3-6 inches from one another. The other cable also had gone bad in the past because there was a splice in the enegized cable where the faulted cable was excevated. Our work practices have always been not to get in a ditch with enegized underground conductors. We have recieved a standoff of all such activity after a lengthy safety invesigation with upper company officials. Being a safety committee member, I can foresee this problem comming up again. I have seached many of the OSHA information and other company information, but info is vauge at best. I would appreciate any info either way, of what your people or companies do.

Thanks,
Ryan Zito ryanzito74@yahoo.com

What your saying is straight up man... Local 71? they started that ratty shit sub tecs and operators as foreman on linecrews... just cuz the cable is insulated and jacketed does not mean that it aint still HOT... yeah concentrec neautral is a great thing but WTF man theres a splicle right there in the damned ditch where they are working??? thats madness... does anyone up there know about step potential?... how do they know that the old "repaired" cable is good after they just dug it up? oh wait lemme guess you're walking in die boots... yeah thats what your gonna do if you touch anything with any other part of you body WHILE WORKING IN A FUGGING DITCH!!!

I'm sorry man but the people that are oppsed to killing the other circuit are fuggin idiots and should be out there some time ... let them put THEIR life on the line... see how they react...

fight it brother fight it... you're doing the right thing and that "foreman" .... send his ass down the GD road....

Edge

[loosescrews]

the municipal i'm at puts everything in conduit and all cables are in there own pipe. we put in four for three phase .on the others always the spare. nothin around here is direct buried to many problems around here. as far as workin on any of it we kill it all. we have a few left where all three in the same pipe but now that's a thing we don't do.to many problems being all together.

[US & CA Tramp]

OSHA regulations on maintaining the Minimum Approach Distance (MAD) have been tested in court for this type of action, and have been upheld in favor of the worker to maintain the MAD from the cable.

If the foreman or company can not guarantee the cable is affectively grounded then tell the apprentice or lineman to cut the cable outside of the ditch with hot cutters and install blankets on the hot phase with sticks from outside the ditch. The company or Foreman won't like the time involved but the lineman will not be refusing to do the job. It is the lineman’s right to use all the protective cover he or she sees fit.

[US & CA Tramp]

Like said above, you already know it's wrong-don't do it. I've seen the aftermath of a blown slice in an open trench and no amount of cover will do a damn bit of good if it was to fault with a man working next to it.

I did not see your previous post, but I guess the point I was trying to make was too subtle.

When dealing with management there is sometimes a fine line between refusing work for safety concerns, and insubordination. It is not insubordinate to use as much safety equipment as you feel is necessary, but to just refuse work as you suggest is considered insubordination. I would hate to hear of someone loosing their job by just refusing work before all of their options are explored.

I know from experience how difficult it is sometimes to protect workers as discussed in the origin of this thread. Just a friendly word of caution to think before we act

[tramp67]

Careful inspection of the energized cables, along with applying any protective barriers, such as an insulating blanket, and if the person working near the energized cable requests it, some 3/4" plywood over the covered energized cable should give you a reasonably safe work area. There's always some inherent risk to our trade, we just need to find ways to minimize the exposure to the risks. We can't just go ahead and de-energize everything we come across. The hazards our trade presents, and the knowledge to minimize the risk and work in a safe manner in the vicinity of hazardous conditions is what we are trained for and paid to do. If everything was done de-energized, we might as well give all the work to narrowbacks and operating engineers.
It seems like one person gets all worked up about something "unsafe", and then everyone goes into panic mode, especially with underground cable. It's a normal practice to work in underground vaults with energized cables, we work on padmount transformers with energized primary in the enclosure, we work on overhead lines next to and on energized primary circuits. We manage to do it safely by minimizing the risks and exposure to the hazardous voltages. The same can apply to working in a trench with both energized and de-energized cables. The biggest issue is to verify that the cable we are about to work on is indeed de-energized and grounded, usually the best method is with a cable spear or remotely operated hydraulic cutter. Covering the energized cable with a blanket, and a sheet of plywood or a fiberglass pad, if you have one, should be more than sufficient to protect you from the energized cable.
I've noticed that a lot of linemen tend to be very complacent about pad mount equipment, and the lack of wearing PPE when working on and around this equipment. There's a much greater hazard to a worker standing in front of an open padmount transformer with the steel enclosure acting as a blast wall, aimed directly at the lineman, than the hazard of working next to an energized cable in a trench, open to the great blue yonder.

[Bull Dog]

I did not see your previous post, but I guess the point I was trying to make was too subtle.

When dealing with management there is sometimes a fine line between refusing work for safety concerns, and insubordination. It is not insubordinate to use as much safety equipment as you feel is necessary, but to just refuse work as you suggest is considered insubordination. I would hate to hear of someone loosing their job by just refusing work before all of their options are explored.

I know from experience how difficult it is sometimes to protect workers as discussed in the origin of this thread. Just a friendly word of caution to think before we act

Management can kiss my patutie. Its my life and I will do it the safe way period. More than a few times I have had to tell my manager in no uncertain terms its not safe and I am not doing it. Never had a problem. We had a guy digging in a ditch with energized cables and he got a blast. Its just plain stupid to do it period. Insubordination that is a joke right? You in management cause you sound like one.