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  1. #11

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    Sometimes company rules should be over-ridden,you are the one on the wire/in the field.Years ago we had nylon jacks used as isolators,one side that we were working on was grounded,this was #2 primary.The other side was left hot...it was a pretty sunny day....then a small rain shower appeared.....the jacks were clean and in good shape....Well they burnt down fast after the rain came down.Just beware.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reppy007 View Post
    Sometimes company rules should be over-ridden,you are the one on the wire/in the field.Years ago we had nylon jacks used as isolators,one side that we were working on was grounded,this was #2 primary.The other side was left hot...it was a pretty sunny day....then a small rain shower appeared.....the jacks were clean and in good shape....Well they burnt down fast after the rain came down.Just beware.
    I agree completely. But when you are trained, and have only worked at one company, if you are taught the wrong way, that's how you do it because you don't know any different. And it's acceptable until there is an incident. I have no problem laying a phase on the arm at all. (with a gut) but we used to use slings as our isolators (or wrap a hoist line directly around the arm) and didn't know any different. I always thought in my head it wasn't quite right, but now I know its not. Good discussion.

  3. #13
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    Stick and jib 44kv
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  4. #14
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    Lewy, are you guys just changing the top pin insulator on that pole? Most places I have worked would re-insulate the entire pole. Heck some places will as soon as they see glass insulators. As a contractor , changing one insulator on a pole isn't worth the cost of setting up. As for the op's question, when changing dead ends always use a link stick or at least an insulator of some kind. My theory is if I have it on the truck ,I am going to use it, if not I will find a safe way to do it , a sling or a nylon strap hoist is not tested. As for laying a rubbered up phase on a crossarm or a screwdriver , its not an issue, but consider the voltage your working on. As for a jib they are designed to handle live conductors, as long as they are tested. Some old fellas I used to work with would not trust them and always used a piece of rubber too.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob8210 View Post
    Lewy, are you guys just changing the top pin insulator on that pole? Most places I have worked would re-insulate the entire pole. Heck some places will as soon as they see glass insulators. As a contractor , changing one insulator on a pole isn't worth the cost of setting up. As for the op's question, when changing dead ends always use a link stick or at least an insulator of some kind. My theory is if I have it on the truck ,I am going to use it, if not I will find a safe way to do it , a sling or a nylon strap hoist is not tested. As for laying a rubbered up phase on a crossarm or a screwdriver , its not an issue, but consider the voltage your working on. As for a jib they are designed to handle live conductors, as long as they are tested. Some old fellas I used to work with would not trust them and always used a piece of rubber too.
    Ya we changed all 3. We had the use of another truck which made it easier to hold the road phase out of the way instead of hanging it on a link stick on the near insulator.

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    Quote Originally Posted by psu927 View Post
    Without going into reasons why, or details at this moment, I wanted to see what you guys think (or were taught) is proper for handling live wire in a few different situations. This is all 13kv from a bucket.

    First, deadending live wire with a jackstrap (small block and tackle) or hoist, must you isolate the hoist or jack from the pole or crossarm? (say..., if you are using a sling?)

    Personally, always isolated the hoist from the pole. With a nylon strap hoist, just throw a rope sling on the crossarm, hook up the hoist, and pull the conductor.

    Second, handling wire in a jib, with rubber? Without rubber?

    Always with rubber Gloves, and rubber on the phase.

    Third, setting a live phase, covered (with rubber snakes) directly on the crossarm or top of the pole?

    Absolutely. It's 7620, or 7200....depending. COMPLETELY Safe, least in my opinion. Only did it like.....thousands of times...

    And the reason you are taught why? Thanks.
    Just the way I was taught, and some common sense.
    .................................................. ..
    “He who dares not offend, cannot be honest”
    ~ Thomas Paine ~

  7. #17

    Default Handling energized wire

    There's an accepted practice when working energized equipment...for yourself and the equipment. It's called "Isolate and Insulate". Isolate from ground or another potential and insulate from voltage. If you apply these principles to you and the work you're doing, you'll be safe.

    Always isolate the hoist or jackstrap from the arm. Especially a web hoist. Many think a web hoist, or "hot hoist" can be placed directly on a rope or web sling. A web hoist should never be placed between objects of different potentials. The web part of the hoist will slowly melt because it becomes the path for current. One day, the hoist will simply snap under a small load and you'll be wondering why. Always "isolate" the hoist from a ground potential, like the arm.

    For the jib? The tested portion of the truck boom is your isolating device. If the jib is tested as an insulating device, you're ok. If not, and most are not, then put rubber on the phase. The rubber is your insulating and the boom is your isolating. You can also use a short insulating link on the jib winch and raise a conductor without rubber as long as your isolation and insulation is taken care of.

    Placing a covered conductor on an arm or top of the pole? That's not following the principles of isolate/insulate, but under many circumstances it will work. Lots of guys have done it many times as the previous post states. Problem is, there will be a situation where it doesn't work. What then? If you use a rubber blanket on the arm (isolate) and a rubber hose on the conductor (insulate), then it will work all the time. It's the habits we build that also keep us safe. If you make a shortcut as a habit, your time will run out one of these days.

    You left out one question. What about the energized conductors around you that you're NOT working on? They should all be covered unless they're further than 2' 1" away from your reaching or falling distance. That distance is almost 4 feet from your working position. Any energized equipment of a different potential closer than that should be covered.

    I was taught these principles from the beginning. My old company was a very large investor owned and a great place to work. Sad thing is they merged with another investor owned and is now just a shadow of it's former self. But, their training program was great back then. I've been in linework almost 44 years now and I'm a firm believer in good rules that make sense and making them a lifetime habit. Follow the rules and you'll go home every night. Start making a few shortcuts your habits and all bets are off. You're not existing by God's grace, and he's the one who gave you a brain! The "isolate/insulate" principle of gloving live equipment works and it's worth making a habit out of.

  8. #18

    Default Handling energized wire

    Sorry, I was in a hurry with the last post and forgot the most important "why". There are three things needed to cause an electric injury...current-path-time. Given enough current, enough time (and its a very short amount), and a path to travel, an accident will occur.

    The principles of Isolate/Insulate takes the "path" out of the equation. No path, then no current can flow. The worker is like a bird on a wire; no path for current to flow. The voltage in an energized wire in an insulated jib or a short link stick has no path to flow anywhere. No path to flow from a hoist on a hot wire to an cross-arm at ground potential, and no melting of the fibers of a web hoist.
    Placing a wire in a hose on an arm? That will prevent the path in most situations, but at voltages higher than 4kv, the risk is too great to take in any situation where moisture may be involved. Plus it's not a good habit to make.

  9. #19
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    Great Post's Copper! I agree with all of the points you made, and that is also how I was trained.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by copperlineman View Post
    There's an accepted practice when working energized equipment...for yourself and the equipment. It's called "Isolate and Insulate". Isolate from ground or another potential and insulate from voltage. If you apply these principles to you and the work you're doing, you'll be safe.

    Always isolate the hoist or jackstrap from the arm. Especially a web hoist. Many think a web hoist, or "hot hoist" can be placed directly on a rope or web sling. A web hoist should never be placed between objects of different potentials. The web part of the hoist will slowly melt because it becomes the path for current. One day, the hoist will simply snap under a small load and you'll be wondering why. Always "isolate" the hoist from a ground potential, like the arm.

    For the jib? The tested portion of the truck boom is your isolating device. If the jib is tested as an insulating device, you're ok. If not, and most are not, then put rubber on the phase. The rubber is your insulating and the boom is your isolating. You can also use a short insulating link on the jib winch and raise a conductor without rubber as long as your isolation and insulation is taken care of.

    Placing a covered conductor on an arm or top of the pole? That's not following the principles of isolate/insulate, but under many circumstances it will work. Lots of guys have done it many times as the previous post states. Problem is, there will be a situation where it doesn't work. What then? If you use a rubber blanket on the arm (isolate) and a rubber hose on the conductor (insulate), then it will work all the time. It's the habits we build that also keep us safe. If you make a shortcut as a habit, your time will run out one of these days.

    You left out one question. What about the energized conductors around you that you're NOT working on? They should all be covered unless they're further than 2' 1" away from your reaching or falling distance. That distance is almost 4 feet from your working position. Any energized equipment of a different potential closer than that should be covered.

    I was taught these principles from the beginning. My old company was a very large investor owned and a great place to work. Sad thing is they merged with another investor owned and is now just a shadow of it's former self. But, their training program was great back then. I've been in linework almost 44 years now and I'm a firm believer in good rules that make sense and making them a lifetime habit. Follow the rules and you'll go home every night. Start making a few shortcuts your habits and all bets are off. You're not existing by God's grace, and he's the one who gave you a brain! The "isolate/insulate" principle of gloving live equipment works and it's worth making a habit out of.
    I agree always cover second points and use a link stick or some other approved isolating device when using a web hoist. As far as using a link stick with the winch on your jib, yes if you are going to use the winch, but I have never used a link stick with my jib and most times just put the bare conductor in the jib unless moving small conductor with class 2 rubber. Does not work so well when moving large conductor and class 4 rubber and impossible with class 5 hard cover.

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