Anybody remember "Arc Circuit" streetlights?

[loodvig]

I remember taking down some of the old 'tubs' that fed those lights. I never worked on the circuts though.

[Special ED]

Remember? Hell Swamp we still got em! They still have a couple tubs down town.. During big storms they try to keep local guys in the area they are in due to alot of folks know little about em or ever worked around em.. Very bad stuff if you dont know what you got.. Lota folks think its a single phase primary runnning under the 3 phase 4kv..

[loodvig]

As the city got the money, we gradually replaced all the heads and went to MV.
And now they are taking down the MV and hanging HPS's.

[climbsomemore]

Marshall MI still has a working series circuit. If you look around some older down town areas you can still see a lot of old series lamp posts that have been converted to parellell systems

We still had some in West Palm and Boynton back in the 80's..." RO"- a constant current transformer has a coil that "floats"( the windings were on a counter weighted lever) and produced whatever voltage it takes to keep a constant ...6.6 amps pushing through whatever lights are connected.

FPL added a another device that would kill the circuit if enough lamps on the circuit were out--- as the voltage would rise too high

http://www.kbrhorse.net/signals/streetlights.html

[Pootnaigle]

At least one refinery round here still has arc circuit series st lighting. Years ago it was deemed too dangerous for the local utility and they did away with it after a fatality ( midnight man had to work st lights at night and got hung up in it all by his lonesome) I cant say as I care for em and yes i have worked on em But in my mind a bad light fixture aint a critical thing so far as I am concerned secondary voltage is the way to go.

[Trbl639]

The military still had some back in the late 70's.....I know Little Rock AFB, still had one in '77...........most were 6.6 amp, but on a few bases, they were 20 amp!!!!! Most all of the runway and taxiway lighting on Air Bases was either 6.6 or 20 amp as well..........

[west coast hand]

It's still all over LA overhead and underground

[Special ED]

Nah Swampy.. I try takin my apes by the tubs and explaining it to em.. When i can.. Or we will be working a 4 kv circuit and I'll ask em how many phases they see on the pole we are workin and they will say well "ya got the 3 phase but whats the single phase for?"

Old technology and should be taken out but I try to make sure all the apes I got learn all they can even if its only useful on this system..

Pike likes to ground it out when changing out poles and stuff when working during the day.. lol Funny thing is you can put a ground on it anywhere while its hot...

[Holsapple]

It's still alive and kicking here on DWP property, tricky because they can burn the circuit at anytime, gotta treat it as hot primary, even though 65% of the time its a dead fish.

[Trbl639]

Yessir...it's suprising that there is still some of it out there.................be willing to bet, there's good hands out there, that have never seen it, much less worked any of it.........

[BigClive]

So was this just one big series circuit of lamps with a common current limiter then?

What was the pill in the lampholder? A bypass device to keep the other lights on if one failed? Were they mercury discharge lamps with the auxilliary ignition electrode inside?

Never heard of this here in the UK.

[Pootnaigle]

Yanno I wuz gonna try n splain an arc circuit but the harder I tryed the more confusing my words came out to be. So If ya aint never seen one ya prolly wont and( In my mind you should consider yerself lucky) And if ya have ya dint need no splainin done anyways.The long and short of it was that if a ballast failed the current on the entire circuit would always remain the same but the voltage would build up to whatever it took to burn out the pill on the pole with the failed ballast. This voltage could build up to primary voltage, Once the pill burned out the voltage dropped back down while the current remained the same (6.6 amps) and the circuit worked( with the exception of the failed ballast) once again.At no time could you determine what the voltage was nor could you depend on it remaining the same. If'n I wuz mor puter literate I wud attemp to draw a schematic n post it on here n then it wud splain itself but alas I aint. Try Googling a series arc circuit n see what ya come up wif.

[BigClive]

From Wikipedia....

Incandescent lamps were primarily used for street lighting until the advent of high-intensity discharge lamps. They were often operated at high-voltage series circuits. Series circuits were popular since the higher voltage in these circuits produced more light per watt consumed. Furthermore, before the invention of photoelectric controls, a single switch or clock could control all the lights in an entire district.

To avoid having the entire system go dark if a single lamp burned out, each street lamp was equipped with a device that ensured that the circuit would remain intact. Early series street lights were equipped with isolation transformers [9] that would allow current to pass across the transformer whether the bulb worked or not. Later the film cutout was invented. The film cutout was a small disk of insulating film that separated two contacts connected to the two wires leading to the lamp. If the lamp failed (an open circuit), the current through the string became zero, causing the voltage of the circuit (thousands of volts) to be imposed across the insulating film, penetrating it (see Ohm's law). In this way, the failed lamp was bypassed and power restored to the rest of the district. The street light circuit contained an automatic voltage regulator, preventing the current from increasing as lamps burned out, preserving the life of the remaining lamps. When the failed lamp was replaced, a new piece of film was installed, once again separating the contacts in the cutout. This system was recognizable by the large porcelain insulator separating the lamp and reflector from the mounting arm. This was necessary because the two contacts in the lamp's base may have operated at several thousand volts above ground/earth.

[MI-Lineman]

Still used in Detroit! We converted all the street lights over to Edison's system but I believe they still use it for schools and sh!t!

We liked it cause after a storm you had an abundance of copper already pulled out for ya and hangin in the air!:D Just catch it off, cut it, and swing it over to the Edison primary span that was down!!;)

[rcdallas]

Someone has got to have some pictures of it somewhere floating around...

[Special ED]

I'll see what I can do.. I know I can get pics of the tubs and ****.. But the lamps and pills I cant. When they go out here we dont hook em back up and install new HPS fixtures on the secondary.

[rcdallas]

Even though my worthless ass couldn't answer your questions about local 66, I'd appreciate it Ed. :)

[Special ED]

No problem Dallas.. Keep your ears open for me though cause I'm lookin for a place to set my drag bag down for a while.

[rcdallas]

Ite, if I hear of anything opening up around here I'll let you know. Local 69 always welcomes another due paying member. :D

[Special ED]

2581This is the best I could find swampy.. Its an old incadescent lamp and socket

[Trbl639]

Looks like the right thing!! I used to have some, but for the life of me, I can't remember where in the hello I put em or where they went!!:)

[Special ED]

Came off a radial wave fixture.. I found it on the web. Theres a pic of the socket too I will have to find it..

[slimdalineman]

Jee Swamp**** now I know you were definitely a high stepping linehand. Arc circuit street lights. Wow. The trouble shooting on those systems taxes the talent of a true international lineman it does.


You pulled the socket, changed the bulb & fuse pill and shoved it back in again. How the hell could I have ever had any doubts about your skills and talents????

Can you start a few more brain teaser treads like this??? Please.

"does anyone remember bolt on connectors?" or "does anyone remember pothead spacers?":D

[Trbl639]

"does anyone remember bolt on connectors?" or "does anyone remember pothead spacers?":D

Believe it or not, a lot of companies still use em!!!!!!

[Edge]

Jee Swamp**** now I know you were definitely a high stepping linehand. Arc circuit street lights. Wow. The trouble shooting on those systems taxes the talent of a true international lineman it does.



You pulled the socket, changed the bulb & fuse pill and shoved it back in again. How the hell could I have ever had any doubts about your skills and talents????

Can you start a few more brain teaser treads like this??? Please.

he does Christmas lights too Smitty...

Easy CLIVE!!!

Edge

[Edge]

"Split Bolts"?:D Loved em. SO many different types of em too..

Primary Spacers....hummm. Bout the only thing that comes to mind with that, is when they tried that experimental Primary Circuit thing...with Insulated Primary, 4/0 ACSR in my case, suspended of a steel arm, hung off the pole. Had "primary spacers" to keep the phases apart in the spans.

The concept fell to ****. The real *****, for us at least....was on a 3 pot bank. Figurin how to skin the wire, and hook up 3 seperate phases, in a 10" circle of a Primary Circuit.

That's the only "primary" spacers I remember.:D

and before you go all to **** Swimpy the man didn't clarify... theres a **** load of "bolt on's" **** bolts just being one and they are worthless as **** regardless of how much you loved them...

**** bolts... parallel grove clamps 2 bolt paddles... screw blades... bushing adapters... and who the **** knows how many more...

I have no clue how many bad neutrals or burnt down primarys I've worked on CWC that were because of them... how many partials that I worked because of **** bolts that got loose over the years... yeah they a quick and easy and good ... for a while.... but give them some time and they show what the are... not worth a fu(k...

for what it's worth...

Edge

[MI-Lineman]

and before you go all to **** Swimpy the man didn't clarify... theres a **** load of "bolt on's" **** bolts just being one and they are worthless as **** regardless of how much you loved them...

**** bolts... parallel grove clamps 2 bolt paddles... screw blades... bushing adapters... and who the **** knows how many more...

I have no clue how many bad neutrals or burnt down primarys I've worked on CWC that were because of them... how many partials that I worked because of **** bolts that got loose over the years... yeah they a quick and easy and good ... for a while.... but give them some time and they show what the are... not worth a fu(k...

for what it's worth...

Edge

I'LL SAY IT AGAIN.....AMPACTS BABY, AMPACTS!!!! OH YEAH!!:cool:

[wtdoor67]

"Yeah I went out there and their voltage was screwy. I jist changed out all them frigging split bolts and replaced em with squeeze ons and that's all it took."

Madre de Christo.

[climbsomemore]

that spacer cable construction is all over the USA... been used up east and in the midwest for years.

City of Lake Worth build as many feeders as they could hang from the pole,..heading north and south along the rail road tracks from the power plant on the south end of town... all the way to the baseball feilds at the north end.

Stripping that stuff...? A couple of hints... "road flare", propane torch or nylon carpenter's string... if you dont have the patented tools for it.

you werent that guy who wore the brown corduroy pants tucked into the 16 boots all the time... picking up stuff at WPB service center around 1984?

[BigClive]

he does Christmas lights too Smitty...

Easy CLIVE!!!


Hey, Christmas lights rule. The only time YOUR work makes kids faces light up with glee is when it goes on fire. :D

[MI-Lineman]

Bullsh!T before Californication become so limp wristed and your either sticked everything off the pole or gloved 4,160, those AMPACT's on a ten foot shotgun with a double alum 400 or 600 cirmil jumper was a ***** for even a horse like me.OR standing ion a double boom latter doing a flying tap was a double killer. The only cover between phases was that sticked crap. Keep your AMPACTS.

He He!:D Another one who "sticked" ampacts and hates'em cuz of it!:rolleyes: Sorry Batts but stickin's another dying art! Ampacts are still the better connection cuz you can shoot the **** things off!! I'm sick and tired of those **** squeeze ons endin up in my way!:mad:

Oh boy! Wonder if his reply will start off with "Hey c@cksucker...."?:D

[Edge]

Seriously? That's STUPID and DANGEROUS **** man.
A steel arm, hangin of a pole, supportin 3, 4/0...or bigger or lesser...Primary, INSULATED conductors, in a 10 inch circle...with "Spacers"?:rolleyes:
Stupid ****...:p

yeah not so much Swimpstick... it depend on where your working.... most places that run multy circuits have them bundled in phases... you got 4 circuits well the four wires in the bundle road side are all the same phase middle all the same feild side all the same....

it aint stupid ****... you just ain't worked it...

the only thing I ever thought was stupid was taking a torch to it to get the GD insulation off of it.... I usually used the wax string/hawk bill method.... then wire brushed the **** outa it.....

it don't get dangerous till a tree goes through it and you got to get it back up...

for what it's worth...

Edge

[Edge]

theres really no point is there.....

after all you take such good care of your macs...

[climbsomemore]

Swamp... you do realize that you can rubber the phases up on that ****.

Hose up everything except what your working on... just like you would conventional construction.

That stuff never caught on in Florida. If you tap it and dont seal it up... the water will enter the cable and migrate through the strands. The water goes to the low point in the span ... and eats the conductor up. In a coastal region, the salt makes things even worse.

AEP has a stretch of the stuff in front of a house I lived in as a child... Got to work on some of that road tramping a few years back (after being out of the area for over 20 years)... that circuit was 'improved' to spacer back in the mid 50's for some tree conditions and is still going strong today.

[MI-Lineman]

Not in the discussion of linework old buddy. One mans opinion is almost as good as mine.:D

Your right about squeeze ons. Have you very had to cut one or two off to resag wire after a pole change out?? No fun there. Just sleeve in a piece of new wire?? Twenty miles from nowhere USA and no sleeve. Hack saw squeeze on.:mad:

I was never a hot shot stick man, and avoided them like the when possible and when using them cut way to many corners.. I marveled at some of the before gloving KP&L and KG&E three men crews sticking changing arms and so forth as fast as a bucket grew could do the same work.

I was traveling down KS 17 headed home for the weekend and Capital Electric was working time spreading 12,000 for a steel poled highline. Up in the bucket working by himself (still PRE rubber glove days on KG&E property) with sticks hanging all over the rim of the bucket was my old highline buddy Wolfie gloving the SH!T out of the conductor. By the time I could get back to the site he was on the ground standing next to his young foreman Davey Waymire. I slammed on my brakes with a .38 sticking out the window yelling I should kill both of you ratty muthers. Davey didn't know me and hit the ground Wolfie was laughing his ***** off. Davey owns his own inspection company now. Just maybe this is why he turned me down as one of his inspectors. YOU THINK????:rolleyes:

I don't know? Sometimes the crazy f$ckers are the best ones to have workin for ya!

I was just kiddin about the c@cksucker thing! That isn't the first time I've heard that about stickin ampacts! Actually I'd like to do more stickin but of course it isn't "cost effective" to some idiot in an office somewhere!:rolleyes:

[Special ED]

**** is a breeze to install.. Got to be a pro at it workin round these parts. But when the **** hits the ground its a pain to put back up!

Working it on tangents with no transformers or anything is a breeze.. Like on a pole change out put some blankets over it and hook the messenger in your jib and swing it over to the new pole quick.. When you got a bunch of openings cut into it like for a 3 phase tap or a bank or whatever Its a pain to cover up or jumper out.

I personally always hated skinning it in the summer cause it never fails some jack ass didnt cover up the ends where they skint it before so the whole phase is full of water and when ya skin it the hot water would run all over you.

Ampacts.. Well I love them things! Wish we still had em round here! Easy to install and remove! H-taps, squeeze ons, or whatever you wanna call em suck.. They usually fail and if your changing out a pole they are more often then not in your way and gotta be cut out.

[climbsomemore]

.... i SWEAR I used a cutting die that would split those damed things off the wire.. without messing up the conductor. The die fit a 10K hydraulic press head. Never knew who made it... and if I knew I'd never see one again I would have STOLE it before I left.

Boynton had one set that would split the bare loop sleeves and it fit in a MD 6 type tool

[Special ED]

I seen one of those dies to remove H-taps one time.. Pretty slick but everywhere I have worked wont buy em.. Everyone wants to save a buck ya know how it is..

[climbsomemore]

Tried that too.... pop the dies out and pinch the H body in the middle... with that little iron projection about the middle of the tool frame.

I was about 50/50 trying that....

Those dang things "always" spit the insulator on a pole change out... a conspiracy if there ever was one!;)