plumbing a pole

[weasle]

I need some opinions. I am an apprentice and one of my journeyman was plumbing a pole the other day. He plumbed it and I was running the truck and I saw the pole was not straight at all. I asked him about it and he told me that tghe way he was plumbing it was the way to do it and the way that I do it is wrong. He says that you only worry about the top four foot of the pole because that is where you stand if you have to climb it. Everything I have been taught in apprentice class and on the job by other lineman tells me that is wrong. I am looking for some kind of publication that tells how to plumb a pole and the reason it is like that. The way I was taught was top over bottom or bottom over top depending on who is telling you. I was also told it was not just for the straightness but also for the support and the weight on the pole. How do I tell someone who has been doing this for twenty plus years that it aint right. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you

[Pootnaigle]

Sounds like you have an ignoramus for a J man. The correct way and only way that I am aware of is to place the top of the pole directly over the butt of the pole. Usually this requires some one one 2 quarters looking at it.One other method is to use a plumb bob and align it perfectly with the centerline of the pole.

[Lineman North Florida]

I to was always taught top over bottom, except on deadend poles and angle poles that need to be raked prior to sagging the wire, have seen guys try to straighten deadend poles that were not properly raked prior to the wire sagging and all they wound up with was a bowed pole. I think you are going to find out that you are right in your thinking and remember that there is alot of advice out there and not all of it is good. Good luck.

[heelwinch]

I need some opinions. I am an apprentice and one of my journeyman was plumbing a pole the other day. He plumbed it and I was running the truck and I saw the pole was not straight at all. I asked him about it and he told me that tghe way he was plumbing it was the way to do it and the way that I do it is wrong. He says that you only worry about the top four foot of the pole because that is where you stand if you have to climb it. Everything I have been taught in apprentice class and on the job by other lineman tells me that is wrong. I am looking for some kind of publication that tells how to plumb a pole and the reason it is like that. The way I was taught was top over bottom or bottom over top depending on who is telling you. I was also told it was not just for the straightness but also for the support and the weight on the pole. How do I tell someone who has been doing this for twenty plus years that it aint right. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you


Perfect example of how a ticket don't make you a lineman.
Unless the guy was just frigin with ya, but I doubt it if he left it.

I have seen them set like that before so there are more than just one dumb ass out there.

[Highplains Drifter]

I need some opinions. I am an apprentice and one of my journeyman was plumbing a pole the other day. He plumbed it and I was running the truck and I saw the pole was not straight at all. I asked him about it and he told me that tghe way he was plumbing it was the way to do it and the way that I do it is wrong. He says that you only worry about the top four foot of the pole because that is where you stand if you have to climb it. Everything I have been taught in apprentice class and on the job by other lineman tells me that is wrong. I am looking for some kind of publication that tells how to plumb a pole and the reason it is like that. The way I was taught was top over bottom or bottom over top depending on who is telling you. I was also told it was not just for the straightness but also for the support and the weight on the pole. How do I tell someone who has been doing this for twenty plus years that it aint right. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you



It all depends on your attitude and it sounds like you might have one or might be having a personality conflict with this JL. One thing that makes the hair on my neck stand up is apes who are always quoting their apprentice director. Most directors become an instructor immediately after topping out and have not worked in their tools very much as a JL. Now they are going to teach you how to be a lineman when they haven't even scratched the surface of line work. First of all you never explained what was going to be attached to this pole, like on a street with a service crossing the road, he might of wanted it out of plumb to help hold some side strain. In wind country poles are raked one third pole top to prevailing winds N/W. Did you tell him the pole was out of plumb or did you ask him why he wanted it set that way?

[rcdallas]

Highplains makes a good point... could be the way you presented it.

Unless it's something as far as someone getting hurt... might be best to be humble for the time being.

[boomup04]

I would strongly agree with rcdallas. Whether it"s right or wrong and as long as it doesn't Bring a safety issue into the equation you do as your J.L. tells you. Just follow the chain of command or "pecking order" it will get you a lot farther. Just learn the right ways to do your job and when you top out you can teach your apes the way you think it should be done. Just be a sponge and absorb it all. It doesn't mean you have to use it or agree. It will get you a long ways. Good luck brother.

[loodvig]

I would strongly agree with rcdallas. Whether it"s right or wrong and as long as it doesn't Bring a safety issue into the equation you do as your J.L. tells you. Just follow the chain of command or "pecking order" it will get you a lot farther. Just learn the right ways to do your job and when you top out you can teach your apes the way you think it should be done. Just be a sponge and absorb it all. It doesn't mean you have to use it or agree. It will get you a long ways. Good luck brother.

Yup what he said. If your hell bent on proving your JL wrong you've got a hard road ahead.

[BigClive]

I disagree with the others. Tell your JL he's a dick and ask him if he wants you to show him how to do the job properly. :D

If possible, could you get someone to video you while you're doing it and put it up on YouTube?

(I'm kidding.... Don't tell him he's a dick. It's often better just to ride along unless he's doing something genuinely dangerous.)

[weasle]

Thanks to all who responded. I went along with the way he wanted it done, and I asked him about the pole not in a smartass manner and with no attitude. The only reason I posted this was for my benefit. I have had other Journeyman tell me to do it the other way and a couple of them plumb them his way. It does not matter if there is anything on the pole or not, that is how they plumb all poles, even inline poles. Thanks for all the help.

[Fiberglass Cowboy]

... You work for a rinky-dink, non-union, mickey mouse outfit and they never taught anyone the right way to plumb a plumbdumb pole. Or MAYBE, you are a union hand, but this guy is a GODDAMNED 2 COUNTY BOOMER, and never learned to use a plumb dumb correctly. Top of the pole lines up with bottom of the pole, unless your allowing for rake in the pole; or unless there is a nasty dogleg (bow) in the pole. That's not from a fancy lineman school. That's from the old school of hard knocks. Plain and simple, Chief.

... Also, don't be afraid to SPEAK UP FROM TIME TO TIME, AS WE ARE ALL SUPPOSED TO LOOK OUT FOR ONE AND OTHER. WE ARE ALL OUR BROTHER'S KEEPER. OR AT LEAST THAT'S HOW WE UNION LINEMEN OPERATE. A GOOD LINEMAN SHOULDN'T TAKE OFFENSE - AT ALL. (IF HE IS GOOD). Only if he is a $HITHEAD, SECOND GUESSING HIMSELF - LIKE EVERYONE ELSE WORKING WITH HIM SECOND GUESSES HIM; BECAUSE HE MIGHT BE A DUMB$HIT OR A DANGEROUS FU(K. ..... :mad:

... Also, SOME of these OLD TIMERS on here replying to your post, probably need to LAY OFF OF IT ALREADY. Chappin' your hide and makin' hairs stand up. Blah, blah, blah. You guys weren't BORN JOURNEYMEN LINEMEN. YOU WERE TRAINED. JUST LIKE WE TRAIN APPRENTICES NOW. - REMEMBER THAT. A very wise, old UNION LINE FOREMAN (LEADMAN) once said, that every other GODDAMNED JOURNEYMAN LINEMAN out there thinks they are the just THE GREATEST LINEMAN to ever $hit behind a pair of climbin' boots. Well, my young friend, that's just NOT the case. Not everybody knows everything. You need to try to have an open mind about things, but when all else fails, JUST STICK TO THE BASICS. Over time people seem to forget things. They tend to forget where they came from. They tend to forget THEY were young once. Everyone has something to teach, and everyone has something to learn, - including APPRENTICE LINEMEN. They day my fellow Journeymen Lineman says he has nothing to learn from an apprentice and anyone else, is the day I stop working around him. A good lineman is a humble one. He doesn't brag and boast. He just knows he's good. And he doesn't mess up. And he shouldn't have to be told by a junior lineman that he's doing something wrong, - NO MATTER WHAT THE TASK. :cool:

... Now that I've spoken my piece, I'm sure a few know-it-all, FU(KIN' 2 COUNTY BOOMERS will try to re-educate me. So lets hear it. I'll wait to list credentials until later if need be in a stupid pissing contest. I guess this fu(kin' MAD IRISHMAN's just in the mood, a$$wipes. :cool:

[SwampRat JR.]

Yup.:cool:

Never needed a Plum bob. Always had, and still have a good eye for Straight or Level.

Yup. :cool: Me to SR. I just like you, do not want to be accused of not contributing in other forums, I just like politics and BS , so to speak, don't really like talkin shop. But I am a diverse cat, just like you SR.

[never_forget_our_brothers]

Oh Lord, now the fun begins...:D

[Edge]

... You work for a rinky-dink, non-union, mickey mouse outfit and they never taught anyone the right way to plumb a plumbdumb pole. Or MAYBE, you are a union hand, but this guy is a GODDAMNED 2 COUNTY BOOMER, and never learned to use a plumb dumb correctly. Top of the pole lines up with bottom of the pole, unless your allowing for rake in the pole; or unless there is a nasty dogleg (bow) in the pole. That's not from a fancy lineman school. That's from the old school of hard knocks. Plain and simple, Chief.

... Also, don't be afraid to SPEAK UP FROM TIME TO TIME, AS WE ARE ALL SUPPOSED TO LOOK OUT FOR ONE AND OTHER. WE ARE ALL OUR BROTHER'S KEEPER. OR AT LEAST THAT'S HOW WE UNION LINEMEN OPERATE. A GOOD LINEMAN SHOULDN'T TAKE OFFENSE - AT ALL. (IF HE IS GOOD). Only if he is a $HITHEAD, SECOND GUESSING HIMSELF - LIKE EVERYONE ELSE WORKING WITH HIM SECOND GUESSES HIM; BECAUSE HE MIGHT BE A DUMB$HIT OR A DANGEROUS FU(K. ..... :mad:

... Also, SOME of these OLD TIMERS on here replying to your post, probably need to LAY OFF OF IT ALREADY. Chappin' your hide and makin' hairs stand up. Blah, blah, blah. You guys weren't BORN JOURNEYMEN LINEMEN. YOU WERE TRAINED. JUST LIKE WE TRAIN APPRENTICES NOW. - REMEMBER THAT. A very wise, old UNION LINE FOREMAN (LEADMAN) once said, that every other GODDAMNED JOURNEYMAN LINEMAN out there thinks they are the just THE GREATEST LINEMAN to ever $hit behind a pair of climbin' boots. Well, my young friend, that's just NOT the case. Not everybody knows everything. You need to try to have an open mind about things, but when all else fails, JUST STICK TO THE BASICS. Over time people seem to forget things. They tend to forget where they came from. They tend to forget THEY were young once. Everyone has something to teach, and everyone has something to learn, - including APPRENTICE LINEMEN. They day my fellow Journeymen Lineman says he has nothing to learn from an apprentice and anyone else, is the day I stop working around him. A good lineman is a humble one. He doesn't brag and boast. He just knows he's good. And he doesn't mess up. And he shouldn't have to be told by a junior lineman that he's doing something wrong, - NO MATTER WHAT THE TASK. :cool:

... Now that I've spoken my piece, I'm sure a few know-it-all, FU(KIN' 2 COUNTY BOOMERS will try to re-educate me. So lets hear it. I'll wait to list credentials until later if need be in a stupid pissing contest. I guess this fu(kin' MAD IRISHMAN's just in the mood, a$$wipes. :cool:

Dammit man finially got that case of home brew I sent ya?;P

well said sir well fuggin said... grunt to JL 1 day or 50 fuggin years... if ya ain't learning your prolly gonna be burnin...

top over bottom correction for rake guys made up from top to bottom bottom preforms left with 3 ta 4 wraps not served... if your using preforms for "finaling out" one the wires sagged...

top over bottom... in the end the wires gonna find the line... that will tell how true to it you were when you set the pole... or how true to it the staker was when he lined it...

good stuff Eric!!!

for what it's worth...

Edge

[bones]

"Just do what you're told" is the biggest crap line someone could tell an apprentice in this the business. The only people spewing that are those who are incapable of leading and fear the questions they may be asked.

Never blindly do and always ask why. Sorry, but "just do it" doesn't fly in my book. Just doing something without thinking or knowing why is open to countless interpretations...one very well killing you.

There are some screwed up people out there in linework, especially on the contractor side. All locals aren't created equal. Some keep a tight ship on who they privilege in, others let any guy that stumbles in strung out on weed and knows what an MD6 is in. Apprentices get passed around and I always tell them the only person that is going to keep you alive is yourself.

Everything I do has a reason, a reason that can be fully explained upon the second of being asked. I can talk all day until one fully understands. Those who out fail to communicate why, probably don't know why:rolleyes:

There are linemen out there that will kill you:mad:

[MI-Lineman]

"Just do what you're told" is the biggest crap line someone could tell an apprentice in this the business. The only people spewing that are those who are incapable of leading and fear the questions they may be asked.

Never blindly do and always ask why. Sorry, but "just do it" doesn't fly in my book. Just doing something without thinking or knowing why is open to countless interpretations...one very well killing you.

There are some screwed up people out there in linework, especially on the contractor side. All locals aren't created equal. Some keep a tight ship on who they privilege in, others let any guy that stumbles in strung out on weed and knows what an MD6 is in. Apprentices get passed around and I always tell them the only person that is going to keep you alive is yourself.

Everything I do has a reason, a reason that can be fully explained upon the second of being asked. I can talk all day until one fully understands. Those who out fail to communicate why, probably don't know why:rolleyes:

There are linemen out there that will kill you:mad:

WHAT??:eek: I'VE BEEN ON BOTH SIDES AND I'LL SAY IT'S 50/50 THANK YOU!!:p

[Pootnaigle]

I too have been on both sides and I absolutely agree that its a 50 50 deal. Some utility guys know just enough to get bye while others are quite knowledgeable and some construction hands know one way to do anything...... the way they were taught, never tried it any other way. Its best to figger out just exactly what kinda guy youre dealing with before putting a lot of credence in what he sez.

[streetracerrx7]

get a piece of string tie something with a bit of weight to it let it dangle and make sure the pole is straight the whole way up!.

[weasle]

Well said to all. I am UNION and proud of it. I work with some guys that think nothing can change ever they are still thinking this is thirty years ago. I also have some real good guys. Just wanted to get some other opinions and I got what I was looking for.

[Highplains Drifter]

Weasle, I just reread your thread and you never stated what type of pole you where plumbing. A steel pole you can use a level. Here is a link on how to use a plumb bob (http://www.ehow.com/how_2120279_use-plumb-bob.html).I get a kick out of rule #6.

Use the plumb bob outside only when the wind is not blowing. Even a slight breeze will cause it to move, throwing off the alignment. Choose a heavier plumb bob for outside use even in windless conditions to help alleviate this factor.

I got a kick out of this, right now we are setting 75 and 80 foot poles and then aerial framing H's. It is so windy we have to set in the cab of the backhoe to block the wind to get the poles plumbed. A friend of mine told me this and he says it works: Take a clear litter bottle, a weight and some string. Drill a hole in the cap and tie the weight off of the bottom and this supposedly will allow one to plumb in the wind. I have not tried it yet because the backhoe is to convenient.:cool:

PS: next time please post a photo of the pole you are asking about, a photo is worth a lot of words and every cell phone has a camera in it.

[bones]

I say that being a contractor lineman.

[BigClive]

Have you guys seen the laser plumbs? I've got one and it's great.

You basically turn it on, place it on the ground and it projects a self levelling dot vertically. Maybe a bit harder to use in a bright environment though.

I suppose it could be strapped at the top of the pole and could project it's dot onto the ground next to the pole.

Here's the one I've got:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SK_0bR39RnI

[MI-Lineman]

I say that being a contractor lineman.

Well then if it makes ya feel any better, the utilities aren't any better!:eek::D Some of them like to use the winch line on the digger for a plumb bob! Works good except the damn booms on the trucks aren't made transparent yet so you can see the top of the pole from the controls. So when she's got a dog leg in her above the claws it ends up lookin like sh!t!:rolleyes:

[MI-Lineman]

HEY WEASLE!! He tell you to eye ball it in line with the wire or 90 off the boom?

[climbsomemore]

Well then if it makes ya feel any better, the utilities aren't any better!:eek::D Some of them like to use the winch line on the digger for a plumb bob! Works good except the damn booms on the trucks aren't made transparent yet so you can see the top of the pole from the controls. So when she's got a dog leg in her above the claws it ends up lookin like sh!t!:rolleyes:

Back a few years ago when Blue and White went back into the transmission game... those guys came to blows trying to plumb big wood with the winch line. Tools and methods came up with an optical leveling gizmo that used a mirror, luber line and mirror with a level bubble built in it... you strapped it to the pole... to look "up the pole" and plumb it to a reference.

The crew argued that that thing "was wrong". After a while all the company raised superstars bid off that transmission crew and they hired a bunch of outsiders... who could plumb off a 'bob and string and it was all good.

I still have a few old Apes who think I am a god... never told them my method to plumb stuff by 'eye'... line up the object your trying to plumb with a known plumb structure( like the corner of any building) in the background and use that vertical line as a reference.

Larry Siddons and Art Mallory showed me that trick back when Hector wore knee pants. In town or close to any buildings I hardly ever use a plumb bob.

[Highplains Drifter]

Back a few years ago when Blue and White went back into the transmission game... those guys came to blows trying to plumb big wood with the winch line. Tools and methods came up with an optical leveling gizmo that used a mirror, luber line and mirror with a level bubble built in it... you strapped it to the pole... to look "up the pole" and plumb it to a reference.

The crew argued that that thing "was wrong". After a while all the company raised superstars bid off that transmission crew and they hired a bunch of outsiders... who could plumb off a 'bob and string and it was all good.

I still have a few old Apes who think I am a god... never told them my method to plumb stuff by 'eye'... line up the object your trying to plumb with a known plumb structure( like the corner of any building) in the background and use that vertical line as a reference.

Larry Siddons and Art Mallory showed me that trick back when Hector wore knee pants. In town or close to any buildings I hardly ever use a plumb bob.

Please don't tell everyone that trick and it works fine for distribution poles. Not to many man made structures in a rural right of way.

[Edge]

your right drifter...

and speaking transmission poles...

always used a transit to plumb and cant steel and crete...

if it was a footer bolt stick used a 4 foot level to set the nuts on the bolts.... set the stick...apply top nuts and use a transit or level... level works good for tubeular or square sticks... transit for tapered ones...

regular ol' bob on the wood lines... unless it was a tricky structure lke a 3 pole 2 arm turn around or some such... then we usually set up the transit...

sounds like extra work but fuk if ya got the tools use em...

for what its worth...

Edge

[climbsomemore]

Please don't tell everyone that trick and it works fine for distribution poles. Not to many man made structures in a rural right of way.

Funny you should mention that... I dusted off a couple of transits that Consumers Energy did not know they owned while I worked there too.

First guy wanted to file a greivance... cause we were not engineers... the other one was just baffled cause he didnt see how we could hang a rifle scope from the winch line and make sense of it.

Out in South Dakota you have a point.... both the trees you all have out there are wind bent... and barns are far and few between.

[climbsomemore]

Funny you should mention that... I dusted off a couple of transits that Consumers Energy did not know they owned while I worked there too.

First guy wanted to file a greivance... cause we were not engineers... the other one was just baffled cause he didnt see how we could hang a rifle scope from the winch line and make sense of it.

Out in South Dakota you have a point.... both the trees you all have out there are wind bent... and barns are far and few between.

"level works good for tubeular or square sticks... transit for tapered ones..."

If your handy with math and have a framing square you can figure out the taper... and tape a block of wood to a 4 foot level that allows for the taper and plumb tapered poles like they were square.

Your right.. if you have the tools use em. How many of us get to use a transit outside of shooting sub station steel in these days?

[lineman2010]

HEY WEASLE!! He tell you to eye ball it in line with the wire or 90 off the boom?


Funny you bring this up. Most lineman will teach straight off the boom and 90 off the boom so you only have to take into account one movement at a time.

This method can be modified a little though depending on where you are at. As long as the pole is plummed directly off the boom first, you can plum from any other point to get it to stand straight up. It is easiest to plum at 90 off the boom (how we are taught), but if there is a huge water hole, building, or whatever in the way, you can stand at just about any angle off the boom. As long as it is standing straight off the end, stinging in or out (or booming up and down) will not change the first plum.

[Highplains Drifter]

It all depends and everyone here assumed the OP (Original Poster) was referring to round wooden poles. It was never stated what style pole he was wanting to know how to plumb. Edge referred to steel and with wooden laminated we use a level since they are rectangular.

[barehander]

I can't believe there are 32 replies on how to plumb a pole!