When do you know the new lineman can't cut it?

[LostArt]

A new lineman, one out of school, or one in training. How or when do you know they can't "cut it" in linework? Or being a lineman? Is it right from the start? A few months?

I know times have changed since my husband started out. And even then they (experienced linemen) knew when or if the guy could or couldn't cut it in just a matter of how they climbed or if they felt comfortable in learning the skill. Or just comfortable doing linework period.

Nowadays you send them off to be Journeymen Linemen or one goes into the program where you are working...etc. Do you have any that are trained and then you realize they ain't cuttin' it? Or once they make the program, it's a done deal?

[Koga]

I can pretty much tell in the first week if not the first couple of days. Don't take long to figure out who wants to work and who don't. But it doesnt matter like it used to. All they have to do is pass the open book test on the computer and theyre pronounced lineman. Then its up to us older guys to keep em from killin them selves.

[LostArt]

I'm thinking from my side of the fence, of course. What I mean is this, it's really hard to fire someone for say...incompetence or not working up to their potential or maybe not even doing their job...period. Know what I mean?

It's like all of these paper evaluations and stuff. I've not personally been rude to a parent or child. And I've been provoked...believe me. And I'm not talking about not getting along with your co-workers either. In a LINEworker's prospective, I see alot of safety issues popping up and not all of it with just the new lineman who might get hurt, it might involve more than just him...might be his crew.

If the employer or even the foreman, has his hands tied and can't do anything unless he has to go through all the red tape inorder to tell the guy he ain't lineman material, seems kinda serious to me.

The most logical thing would be the lineman himself would know he couldn't cut it, right? I'm thinking that doesn't happen a whole lot, does it? Can you honestly say that if the guy don't cut it, he will automatically be told? Maybe be offered another position...meter reader, dispatcher, etc.? I mean, what really happens?

[koca]

I can usually tell how I feel about a guy on a personal bais when he gets out of his pick-up and walks across the yard for the first time. I've been wrong but I've been right more times than not. As far as skills go that can take awhile.

[T-Man]

I think because we've been there done that we can usually see if a person has what it takes to get r done so to speak. Within a few days if not seconds we can see who's up for it as far as going to be a climber or not. Then when we see who steps up to do the work first or grabs the tools first, makes up the material the way it was asked and then watch them do a task up on a pole we can see who retains what was told them and who is lost and just can't get it. Some are naturals and others take a while to catch on. I think guys who give an honest effort without a bunch of excuses can be made into good linemechanics and those who don't take responsibility for their actions, don't face up to their short commings are the ones we need to document their work behavior and start all the "Red tape" to have a way to let them go. If we don't document this there is no evidence that this person hasn't got what it takes. A lot rests on the crews to be sure a guy is where he needs to be and if not, being sure to let supervision know what needs improvement. I think everyone who applies deserves a chance to do this work, but if they don't cut it they need to be let go. For their own good and the good of the crews also. It can be dangerous having someone not "tuned up" to work with in this sport. . . .

[Mike-E]

There are plenty of chances to weed guys out of the program. At least that's how it was for ALBAT. Climbing school, 19 out of 41 passed. I know of a few guys who were not interested in doing book work and got kicked out of the program, and even more who got held back because of bad evaluations. Unfortunately, a few do slip through the cracks and I've had to deal with more than I would care to. But for the most part, the system works to get rid of the sick, lame, and lazy.

[rcdallas]

Worked 25 hours on the 4th at least 5 hours of it was in hard rain... another crew was there and I think this new guy come from a lineschool... guy didn't have a lick of mud on him and he was nice and dry, I didn't see any effort what so ever.

Got another who amazingly never doing anything when a foreman is not around, never seems to stock a truck let alone get water take the effort and never asks any questions... either slow to retain things or just clueless on catching a service off.

Dunno.......

[Koga]

that were good workers, showed intrest, and tried but when it came time to climb, thats when the brakes came on. Thats when I think they were offered somethin else. One right now I can think of I got nothin but respect for the man, except for the climbin he would have made a good hand. But he himself realized it . No problem he should be offerd somethin. Its the ones that don't even try, the one you have to tell over and over and over the same **** every time the truck stops. The one that after you show him for the ### time how to make up material or run a hand line or this is what we need he still aint got it, no hes on the phone to who knows who. So now I have to watch his ass all the time cause if somethin happens and the little snot nose gets hurt ,guess who ends up in kangaroo court !!! Thats the one that needs to be told and sent down the road in the first week or two. Like I said used to happen that way but not anymore. ****it !

Koga

[freshjive]

I'm gonna be second class in roughly 3 weeks give or take a few days, and there is a guy about 6 months behind me ( He's basically got a year maybe a touch more in the trade), who i feel, is just there for a nice paycheck and to take it easy on rainy days. I think he's there for that and not because he is actually interested and enjoys doing linework. This guy just absolutly struggles with everything he does, from the simplest of tasks like,stapping on a harness, seriously. Where he is in his progression, his linework needs major improvement. I try to give him advice and little tips and he always just says "ya I know" not angrilly, but he just sounds very confident, but he doesn't know, because half the time he messes somethin up, or has a spark show. Yesterday, we were doing a simple 50ft house service. he wanted to go in the bucket to do the hot end to get the practice, no problem right? First thing I told him, was to make sure to either tape, or put a small peice of rubber on the 2 skun spots on the hot-legs..Ya, I know he confidently says. Well, sure enough, not 2 minutes later, i hear the popping and cracking!!!!! Luckily, my end of the new wire was already grounded to the house nuetral before he decided to just bring up the cable. The wire was right next to my chest, i was sweating, and it was misty out, and he didn't even think twice, or look at me, he just proceeded to throw the new wire over the uncovered secondary to secure and cut it..Needless to say, I had a few words with him when he got down and you can guess what answer i got. "YA I KNOW". Well, why the hell didn't you do it then if you knew? He loves rain days and being on crews that are strictly doing primary work because that gives him an excuse not to go up..When i was at his level, if i ever pulled any of that sh*t, I'd be back in the meter dept., or at least be getting my ass reamed out to the point where i'd be forced to bid out...I don't know, but i feel like he should be doing far better than he is and that's giving him the benefit of the doubt, that he is a slow learner, but when is enough enough? I'm not the only one who sees it either, people are slowllly seeing little quirks, but i work with him a lot, so i see what they don't. Sometimes i am nervous to go up with him in the air, because his body reacts before his mind does and thats how you get hurt or killed in this job..I try and tell him to just slow down, and think about what he's doing, before he goes and does it.. I, of course, get the same "YA I KNOW" answer, but everytime i hear that, I am prepared for a mistake, because he doesn't know..I hate to be the one to say anything, because who am i to say anything, but it's my ass up there and you all know the job is hard enough without having to babysit the guy in the air next to you and watch out for him and you. It pains me to watch him struggle like he does in the air with just simple, simple stuff. Example, I once grounded for him when he was hooking a pole to take some stuff down and hang a roller for some new cable we were running in. Well, I saw him fight to get a 12 inch bolt and insulator out of that pole for at least 30 minutes, no exaggeration..The crew leader told him to leave the bolt there before he even touched it, but he insisted he get it out, and the crew leader then wouldn't let him come down untill he got it out, just for going against what he said. He missed his lunch break that day lol. A week ago, he took three hours to put some u fiber on a secondary siphon to a house and make 3 connections. I told him to hold the nails with his pliers because it makes it a hell of a lot easier..What does he do? Holds the nails with his class 2 gloves and drops about 10 of them and probably put a hole through his glove while nailing the stuff, who knows.. I realize that there is no rush, but 3 hours on a basically bare pole, just puttin up 3 pieces of u-duct is a tad extreme,yes? It's a tough call to make, but he passed school (no idea how), so the company says that qualifies him to glove 13kv and hot-stick 34.5kv next to me in a few months, oh boy can't wait for that.....He actually told me when he went to the pre-qualifying school, that he wasn't really sure he wanted to do linework due to the heights and other factors...I think he should've trusted his gut....

[lineman1010]

I'm gonna be second class in roughly 3 weeks give or take a few days, and there is a guy about 6 months behind me ( He's basically got a year maybe a touch more in the trade), who i feel, is just there for a nice paycheck and to take it easy on rainy days. I think he's there for that and not because he is actually interested and enjoys doing linework. This guy just absolutly struggles with everything he does, from the simplest of tasks like,stapping on a harness, seriously. Where he is in his progression, his linework needs major improvement. I try to give him advice and little tips and he always just says "ya I know" not angrilly, but he just sounds very confident, but he doesn't know, because half the time he messes somethin up, or has a spark show. Yesterday, we were doing a simple 50ft house service. he wanted to go in the bucket to do the hot end to get the practice, no problem right? First thing I told him, was to make sure to either tape, or put a small peice of rubber on the 2 skun spots on the hot-legs..Ya, I know he confidently says. Well, sure enough, not 2 minutes later, i hear the popping and cracking!!!!! Luckily, my end of the new wire was already grounded to the house nuetral before he decided to just bring up the cable. The wire was right next to my chest, i was sweating, and it was misty out, and he didn't even think twice, or look at me, he just proceeded to throw the new wire over the uncovered secondary to secure and cut it..Needless to say, I had a few words with him when he got down and you can guess what answer i got. "YA I KNOW". Well, why the hell didn't you do it then if you knew? He loves rain days and being on crews that are strictly doing primary work because that gives him an excuse not to go up..When i was at his level, if i ever pulled any of that sh*t, I'd be back in the meter dept., or at least be getting my ass reamed out to the point where i'd be forced to bid out...I don't know, but i feel like he should be doing far better than he is and that's giving him the benefit of the doubt, that he is a slow learner, but when is enough enough? I'm not the only one who sees it either, people are slowllly seeing little quirks, but i work with him a lot, so i see what they don't. Sometimes i am nervous to go up with him in the air, because his body reacts before his mind does and thats how you get hurt or killed in this job..I try and tell him to just slow down, and think about what he's doing, before he goes and does it.. I, of course, get the same "YA I KNOW" answer, but everytime i hear that, I am prepared for a mistake, because he doesn't know..I hate to be the one to say anything, because who am i to say anything, but it's my ass up there and you all know the job is hard enough without having to babysit the guy in the air next to you and watch out for him and you. It pains me to watch him struggle like he does in the air with just simple, simple stuff. Example, I once grounded for him when he was hooking a pole to take some stuff down and hang a roller for some new cable we were running in. Well, I saw him fight to get a 12 inch bolt and insulator out of that pole for at least 30 minutes, no exaggeration..The crew leader told him to leave the bolt there before he even touched it, but he insisted he get it out, and the crew leader then wouldn't let him come down untill he got it out, just for going against what he said. He missed his lunch break that day lol. A week ago, he took three hours to put some u fiber on a secondary siphon to a house and make 3 connections. I told him to hold the nails with his pliers because it makes it a hell of a lot easier..What does he do? Holds the nails with his class 2 gloves and drops about 10 of them and probably put a hole through his glove while nailing the stuff, who knows.. I realize that there is no rush, but 3 hours on a basically bare pole, just puttin up 3 pieces of u-duct is a tad extreme,yes? It's a tough call to make, but he passed school (no idea how), so the company says that qualifies him to glove 13kv and hot-stick 34.5kv next to me in a few months, oh boy can't wait for that.....He actually told me when he went to the pre-qualifying school, that he wasn't really sure he wanted to do linework due to the heights and other factors...I think he should've trusted his gut....

freshjive i hear ya on what you are saying, its like this guy is trying to walk right through this learning little as possible. from the sounds of it you work for a power company. if this guy was working for a contractor they would probablly have gotten rid of him along time ago,we have guys getting kicked out of the programe all the time if they cant cut it they cant stay. we work under units and to take 3 hours to put up u guard u know the company isnt making any money so see ya. you guys really dont weed guys out once they get in as a meter reader and then get into the line department they are in for life. not like that on the construction side.

good luck with the guy, trying tell him he doesnt know and to listen. i know about what you are saying about working with him in the air. you need to be able to trust the person u are working with. just watch your back and be safe man

[LostArt]

Boy howdy. That's a scary story Jive. And sounds frustrating from your point of view; and not just from a foreman's viewpoint.

I believe in giving a person every opportunity to succeed in what they want to accomplish or in a career of their choice....to better themselves. I don't care where they come from or their gender/racial background. I do have a problem keeping one that is either incompetent or....as I say, "useless" :D

I can't stand to see our hard earned dollars go to waste. Oh sure, it's the company that is doing it, but WHO is suffering in the trenches? And like Koga posted, who is counted as responsible?

[Edge]

Boy howdy. That's a scary story Jive. And sounds frustrating from your point of view; and not just from a foreman's viewpoint.

I believe in giving a person every opportunity to succeed in what they want to accomplish or in a career of their choice....to better themselves. I don't care where they come from or their gender/racial background. I do have a problem keeping one that is either incompetent or....as I say, "useless" :D

I can't stand to see our hard earned dollars go to waste. Oh sure, it's the company that is doing it, but WHO is suffering in the trenches? And like Koga posted, who is counted as responsible?

thats the problem now adays LA theres the idea of "giving a person every opportunity to succeed in what they want to accomplish or in a career of their choice....to better themselves." in linework that can be giving them a chance to fail... and if they do.... they might not be around to tell about it...when if they had tried pumpin gas they could have while they were flippin burgers....

but back to the original topic...
usually you can tell before they ever get the title "lineman"... like someone else said there's a difference in construction and powercompany lineman... the contraters weed you out pretty quick even if you have "passed" some **** at a linemans school....

school is wonderful....and gives guys valuable tools... but if you can't use or apply them when the rubber hits the road??? welll then we don't need ya here in this trade...

for what it's worth

Edge

[freshjive]

i mean i'm a very patient person, i hardly ever get mad never yell, always listen when a senior guy has a tip or a pointer for me, even when i mess up i can admit to screwing up instead of just saying YA I know, or make up a lame ass excuse. But when I'm up there with a person who i have to watch as well as watch my own back, it sucks. This guy just doesn't seem to care about the work. He just wants that paycheck at the end of the week. Ever since the first day I started the guy that trained me always said, "neatness counts". He's really old school and he takes pride in his work and likes to take the extra 2 minutes to make it look nice not for anyone but himself.. most of the time the guy i have to work with just throws it together in hopes to get out of the air quicker. If the lights are on, it's good enough for him, sloppy or messy, it doesn't matter to him, which is the wrong habit to develop this early in his carreer, because as we all know bad habits are hard to break.

[returntotheeve]

i mean i'm a very patient person, i hardly ever get mad never yell, always listen when a senior guy has a tip or a pointer for me, even when i mess up i can admit to screwing up instead of just saying YA I know, or make up a lame ass excuse. But when I'm up there with a person who i have to watch as well as watch my own back, it sucks. This guy just doesn't seem to care about the work. He just wants that paycheck at the end of the week. Ever since the first day I started the guy that trained me always said, "neatness counts". He's really old school and he takes pride in his work and likes to take the extra 2 minutes to make it look nice not for anyone but himself.. most of the time the guy i have to work with just throws it together in hopes to get out of the air quicker. If the lights are on, it's good enough for him, sloppy or messy, it doesn't matter to him, which is the wrong habit to develop this early in his carreer, because as we all know bad habits are hard to break.

You're right about the bull**** attitude of his. He needs to understand that he may have low standards and may be satisfied with his junk but he needs to build it for the next guy, and that next guy WILL be you! Phuck traps, phuck junk! DO NOT allow this guy to say "I know" anymore. I know is so stupid. I've been told **** i knew inside and out, over and over again and would only give a "thank you" "I know" really means "My ego is fragile and I need you to feel that I'm capable even though my actions speak otherwise" Lead by example FJ.

[freshjive]

thats exactly right 100%. I know really means I have no idea and I'm just saying that so you leave me alone.... Its also his attitude in general..He acts like he's been with the company for years..He hasn't earned the right to ***** yet. He hasn't even been there a year..I tell him everyday that he should be lucky he's got this job and all he says is management is this and management sux blah blah blah (he looks up to guys who sound like morons with some of the **** they come up with). In reality, he doesn't have a clue about management or what they even do. He'll say: Why work fast they'll just have you do something else after? So what? ...Dude, you're in training and you should be eating up as much airtime and ground work time as you can if you wanna learn right....His excuse for every mistake and screw-up is, i'm an apprentice, so i'm basically allowed to mess up and get off scott free....This guy is in for a rude awakening someday.He's not very original..He just tells everybody what he thinks they wanna hear just to be accepted.What he doesn't realise is he sounds like an asswipe...He never has an opinion of his own...With all of the unemployment in this country, someone that could actually do the job without making it look like a complete struggle would be happy to fill this guy's place in a second....Get somebody in here who wants to learn and wants to do the work in the sun or the shi**y weather........

[west coast hand]

thats exactly right 100%. I know really means I have no idea and I'm just saying that so you leave me alone.... Its also his attitude in general..He acts like he's been with the company for years..He hasn't earned the right to ***** yet. He hasn't even been there a year..I tell him everyday that he should be lucky he's got this job and all he says is management is this and management sux blah blah blah (he looks up to guys who sound like morons with some of the **** they come up with). In reality, he doesn't have a clue about management or what they even do. He'll say: Why work fast they'll just have you do something else after? So what? ...Dude, you're in training and you should be eating up as much airtime and ground work time as you can if you wanna learn right....His excuse for every mistake and screw-up is, i'm an apprentice, so i'm basically allowed to mess up and get off scott free....This guy is in for a rude awakening someday.He's not very original..He just tells everybody what he thinks they wanna hear just to be accepted.What he doesn't realise is he sounds like an asswipe...He never has an opinion of his own...With all of the unemployment in this country, someone that could actually do the job without making it look like a complete struggle would be happy to fill this guy's place in a second....Get somebody in here who wants to learn and wants to do the work in the sun or the shi**y weather........

dam man sound like a real suck ass. i have no pattions for loud mouth or cocky apps they should feel lucky that they have a job in this trade they get payed very well to learn this trade....had a gf last year tell me i'm going to give you a all lineman crew because you keep firing every app i give you. i said sorry but if they are not worth a f%$k there down the road pretty simple

[loosescrews]

got one app. that is the worst in hooks been that way from day one has never gotten any better. one that has never gotten faster doing bucket work althogh better (said if you want speed drive a race car!) as time goes you get faster on routine stuff(although nothin is routine in linework).rest are okay. our place set a policy about it but won't stand behind what they put in wrighting (if you can't cut go somewhere else just makes it harder on the rest of us.

[mx-5]

a lot of macho lineman on this thread..guys who once made lineman were the best and never made a mistake..never asked another foreman or lineman another way of doing something,cause as a fresh new lineman new it all..i've been a lineman 25 years and still ask the guys with 35 years + if there is a better way........of course that's rare.......;)

[returntotheeve]

a lot of macho lineman on this thread..guys who once made lineman were the best and never made a mistake..never asked another foreman or lineman another way of doing something,cause as a fresh new lineman new it all..i've been a lineman 25 years and still ask the guys with 35 years + if there is a better way........of course that's rare.......;)

Don't be afraid to ask the new guys too. Sometimes they'll surprise you. It's true tough, some guys need to remember that we weren't born with hooks on.

[returntotheeve]

got one app. that is the worst in hooks been that way from day one has never gotten any better. one that has never gotten faster doing bucket work althogh better (said if you want speed drive a race car!) as time goes you get faster on routine stuff(although nothin is routine in linework).rest are okay. our place set a policy about it but won't stand behind what they put in wrighting (if you can't cut go somewhere else just makes it harder on the rest of us.

Is that kid trying everyday? Doe she put the hooks on during lunch or does he only climb begrudgingly on those rare right of way jobs?

[freshjive]

no this kid would rather pray for rain than do anymore than he has to at least the kid where i am

[loosescrews]

even though i've got the lead lineman slot on my crew i'll still ask the foreman questions. even called my retired foreman and asked him a question one night. the grunt that we have on the crew won't even put his hooks on the bucket when he's on call with which ever lineman that week. he runs when it's time to climb. then runs to do the bucket on a couple of single phase poles then he do'nt want to do anything else for a month.not real motivated.

[Pootnaigle]

One of the best ways to train an apprentice us to ask em on every job for HIS suggestions and if its possible Incorporate them ( using him of course). It builds confidence which is sooooooooooooo very important in this trade and at the same time helps em to see first hand why some stuff just aint as easy to do as it is to think up.
What truley sucks is a journeyman thats been in the trade for years and has never applied himself or tried to learn anything new.I have one of those and He will tell the apprentices that he Is a Lineman but he cant think past his nose and cannot be trusted to hook up anything to secondary voltages without smoking sumpin. His pat excuse is " I never done it that way before". Its a real shame cause there isnt a better guy to have as a pole buddy if yer changing out a hot corner. He will use every peice of rubber goods and follow every rule.I spoze his attitude is whats the prollem. He wont take part in job planning and he wont ask questions . when he dont understand. Idda canned the guy years ago but alas they wont run him off cause he shows up everday.
Linework is not only what I do its part of who I am therefore Ihave always tried to do it smart and neat and RIGHT. Unfortunately some dont aspire to anything more than a paycheck.

[loosescrews]

i hear what you sayin. i will try things new when time allows right we're the only crew that is doing line work. our other crew is doing all fiber on our system and one service crew. so time is something that we don't really have. with a reconductor job and all new services (undergrounds and new taps). but we all ask each other stuff 4 of us out of 5.the other guy just can't get with it. has on his mind the easiest way to make a dollar with out working. he's the type that gets mad when tell him to cover up something with a blanket or put another snake on the line or leave your gloves on.

[mx-5]

being lazy,slow or getting out of work is one thing..but if this guy is just hard headed about being safe,well that's a whole different ball game...i'd pull him a side,alone,and explain to him ONE TIME that i am in charge and you will work safe or we are headed back to the yard.....period..

[freshjive]

well i was tellin loosescrews yesterday, the guy I'm with asks me if I think he should use rubber, when he's the one going up.This kid thinks safety, but doesn't have enough common sense to do what he knows is right .I told him very nicely when in doubt, always have a couple pieces handy.I said no one's gonna cuss you out for takin an extra 5 mins (or in his case 20 lol) to rubber up spots where you could make contact. But seriously, I'm glad he brought it up, because his back hit the open wire hot secondary three times in 2 mins. Thank god it was rubbered. He was sweaty, it was very hot and humid, and there was a lot of load on that wire. A perfect combination for a ride to the ER. Needless to say the crew-leader went absolutly ballistic when he saw this going on, which he had every right to do..I think he as well as the other appes are starting to see that maybe this guy is on a different level than them and maybe he doesn't have the ability, the patience, or the smarts to do this job..The othere guys are starting to do work without being told every step, while he is still being told to rubber up..C'mon seriously?

[Unst]

I've learned in this trade one's persons opinion doesn't mean much. You hear you're getting a new lineman or ape, call a buddy up, and you get the grim news he isn't worth two ****s. Guy shows up and he's a protege in linework, or vise versa.

As for rubber, I always tell the guys, hey it's your life. Put as much rubber on as you think your life is worth. If your life is worth one stick, then put one stick on. I'll speak up if the situation gets rediculous, but realize everyone has a "zone" of safety they tend to keep to. They know how much they can trust themselves and thus make the situation safe enough accordingly.

Most guys are average,90%. The guys that over do the rubber probably have a history of burning things down. It all comes down to how much you trust yourself. The guys that under do it, kind of hit and miss there. Some of the best and worst in that catagory.

All I can say is I'm safe enough for me. I cover my immediate area. Covering a point of contact 15ft away is useless.

[MEGA81]

I've learned in this trade one's persons opinion doesn't mean much. You hear you're getting a new lineman or ape, call a buddy up, and you get the grim news he isn't worth two ****s. Guy shows up and he's a protege in linework, or vise versa.

As for rubber, I always tell the guys, hey it's your life. Put as much rubber on as you think your life is worth. If your life is worth one stick, then put one stick on. I'll speak up if the situation gets rediculous, but realize everyone has a "zone" of safety they tend to keep to. They know how much they can trust themselves and thus make the situation safe enough accordingly.

Most guys are average,90%. The guys that over do the rubber probably have a history of burning things down. It all comes down to how much you trust yourself. The guys that under do it, kind of hit and miss there. Some of the best and worst in that catagory.

All I can say is I'm safe enough for me. I cover my immediate area. Covering a point of contact 15ft away is useless.


Great post bud. I always noticed how much variation there is with peoples opinions about other people. All the gossiping on jobs makes me sick sometimes.

[freshjive]

I just want everyone I'm in the air with to be safe. I'm not a critic because everyone struggles now and again..I just don't like telling someone something over and over trying to help them to no avail..I also don't like when a new guy wishes and hopes for rain and weather that's over 90 degrees everyday so he doesn't have to do anything..That's all..I would never bash on anyone and although I try to help this guy, it's almost as if he doesn't care to hear anyone's opinion or advice..So I guess its just more frusterating than anything

[loosescrews]

i don't really want to or try to down any body. but every body is there as a team. and when one guy try's to short cut and it's not right it put's every one on that crew in a really bad situation. and you don't want to have to jump the guy but you have to so maybe he won't do the samething again.if one of the other guy's had and idea we would listen may even try it, if it was good.after all the things that are done one way for years was passed on done to us be the ones before.that's what some of the younger guy's don't stop to realize.

[Chazz2771]

i mean i'm a very patient person, i hardly ever get mad never yell, always listen when a senior guy has a tip or a pointer for me, even when i mess up i can admit to screwing up instead of just saying YA I know, or make up a lame ass excuse. But when I'm up there with a person who i have to watch as well as watch my own back, it sucks. This guy just doesn't seem to care about the work. He just wants that paycheck at the end of the week. Ever since the first day I started the guy that trained me always said, "neatness counts". He's really old school and he takes pride in his work and likes to take the extra 2 minutes to make it look nice not for anyone but himself.. most of the time the guy i have to work with just throws it together in hopes to get out of the air quicker. If the lights are on, it's good enough for him, sloppy or messy, it doesn't matter to him, which is the wrong habit to develop this early in his carreer, because as we all know bad habits are hard to break.


I hear ya there buddy.....a guy I work with is quite similar it sounds like. Just happy to have a paycheck. I heard a quote on here one time: "You're not building power lines, you're building monuments and they're going to be here for a hundred years". I try to work by that statement, even if Joe-Schmoe looks up and doesn't care, I do. The guy I work with is sure good at learning the contract and knowing if his pay raise came or not or if he is getting his half hour of over-time for the week, too bad he doesn't put that same effort into learning the trade. I've worked with quite a few guys like you talk about, a Mickey-D's burger flipper would put them to shame. Just like you said, it's hard enough to watch your OWN ass from $hit you do, let alone having to make sure the guy next to you doesn't bone you or turn into a piece of fried meat.:cool:

[Pootnaigle]

Its purdy much a must to watch and see if yer pole buddy has 20 yrs of experience or 1 year of experience 20 times.Strive not to be one of those. In most cases it takes maybe 5 years AFTER one reaches Journeyman status to become one. Ive seen it too many times where once declared a J man some idiot thinks he knows it all and ceases to learn.Be wary of those and perform your work like you were leaving your signature on it. That next guy will recognize 20 years later that what ever he is working on was done by a craftsman. Try and be one of those.

[OLE' SORE KNEES]

Its purdy much a must to watch and see if yer pole buddy has 20 yrs of experience or 1 year of experience 20 times.Strive not to be one of those. In most cases it takes maybe 5 years AFTER one reaches Journeyman status to become one. Ive seen it too many times where once declared a J man some idiot thinks he knows it all and ceases to learn.Be wary of those and perform your work like you were leaving your signature on it. That next guy will recognize 20 years later that what ever he is working on was done by a craftsman. Try and be one of those.

Alot of wanna be's that just got their ticket know it all. This is the type I won't waste my time with,now the ones that want to sincerely learn......I'll teach them what I know....that should'nt take too long...........LOL...you never quit learning.

[mx-5]

hell...weren't we all know it all's at first.;)

[Pootnaigle]

Yep we prolly were............... But somewhere deep down inside we realized that there was more to learn. (Little did we know how much more) Unfortunately some of us dont go through that phase. And proudly pound our chests over what great Linemen we are, Never realizing that theres way more out there to learn, and 20 years later find ourselves lacking.We dont ask questions when we should, We shy away from some job that would show our ignorance,We find ourselves looking to the new guys that are fresh on the books to supply the answers to questions we never asked ourselves. This is a constant learning trade and if ya wanna be in the mix ya just hafta Learn at every oppertunity. Until you can say you have...... you aint no Journeyman in my book, and prolly not in most others either.
You new guys cant possibly understand how much this trade has changed in just the last 20 yrs. Look at the materials used today......... stronger , more durable easier to handle, and the equippment wayyyyyyyyyyyy better,And my guess is 20 yrs from now it'll be even more advanced.Todays voltages are higher The load is greater and down time is unnaceptable for the modern customer.Todays Corporate Utilities are run by college educated morons that never dropped a bead of sweat in their life and have no clue what a linemans life is like ( although they pay it a handsom lip service). But A Journeyman Lineman Has to overcome all obstacles and rise to his best each and every day....... and that wont ever change

[Mike Honcho]

That's a really good post, and vary true. I have been in the trade for 17 year's, I ask alot of appentice's question's, just to see if I remember some of that stuff that is not the day to day stuff. If it dosen't sound right though, I say show me proof and make them look it up for me, it help's us both in a positive way, alway's good to review.

[Unst]

In defense of the younger generation, I have to say many of the older guys are doing more talking than walking. They're a big mouth on the ground and have all the ideas, but seem to never find their way into the bucket. I always made sure not to be one of those guys. It is a lot easier to take in your foreman's opinion and ideas when he's worked beside you in the air and made you look like a bumbling clown than that old ******* on the ground who's voice has become nothing but another background noise. Even as GF, I made sure to get some bucket time. Today, a guy gets a few years in a supervisory position and before they know it, they're afraid of the bucket. I've seen it over and over.

Talk's cheap. Coming up through the ranks, I've worked under both. Some foremen no doubt I didn't get along with and I admit, wasn't the most cooperative with. I was just a know it all in their eyes. So be it. I didn't see him in the air, I've never seen him work, I don't know what he's capable of, so why should I respect his opinion much less listen to him? A guy you've seen fight gets your respect, a guy that talks about it all the time is just an annoyance. The day I can't climb a pole to show a kid how it's done is the day I retire from this trade. That's how I work.

That being said, you have to rise above whoever you're teaching. Guys, you got kids from college being sent to you! I mean it is becoming the norm in the utility side of things anyways. They aren't your average bum like we were. Their intelligence is razor sharp. You have to keep up to date with your procedures, your books, your safety because they will remind you of policy. And if your policy is that of what you read in 1972 from a 1948 edition book, you're going to have problems no doubt.

I know, sometimes you just get a real prick who is just an arrogant screw up across the board. Rarely in my experience, but it does happen. Most likely they already know they're no good but depend on their foreman catching their mistakes all the time. To that I just say "I'm not like your other foremen, I will let you kill yourself." Of course I don't mean it but sometimes you just have to cut deep to get them thinking.

[Lineman North Florida]

Well put Unst, they will respect you if you get up there and show them instead of telling them and they'll speak well of you when your old, your name and reputation should mean everything to a man.

[Edge]

when do you know a new lineman can't cut it??? when he pisses his pants shuting in on a bad 15kva in a back lot...

[RR E.T.]

on the railroad it takes about 10 min after they climb a 125 footer to a transmission line at a bridge then a train screaming by at a 130 mph usually they tell us "this is not for me" 95% of the time as far as skill it takes at least 5 years to get good at what your doing and still theres a lot to learn. they usually weed there self out over time the stubborn ones usually get hurt,killed,or someone else hurt or killed it is sad to say thats what happens but usually you can tell by the crew and their reactions of working with them but they do push way to many through that have no buisness being there at amtrak their is a qualifing period after 2 years before you are considered a "A" man you have to take clearances and know the system the railroad operates different then most it is a single phase system with one circuit running into the next with section breaks and switchs everywhere you have to know it to qualify if not they get rid of you by basiclly not offering you a job.

[bobbo]

I like construction because everyone does it different. A guy from New York will do it 180 from a guy from TX. I use to do four backlot set a day. Then I decided to work for a power company, wrong thing. For ten years I never wrecked out a whole arm. My chain saw was running every five minutes. Transfer then lite up the chain saw. The norm at the utility was to leave old pole in the phases. Have old arms in the way. I was going nuts. They had some safety rule about chainsaws- Whats more dangerous, wrecking out as you go or wrecking out old pole and arms between phases.

I like working with the old guys. Young journeyman are not mature in a lot of ways. Their egos are big. They are more critical. They have cliques. If I work with a couple of older guys, I know the day will pass faster and a lot gets more done. The tools and material will be laid out. Young guys run up the pole with nothing laid out and screaming for material and tools. It makes for a real long day.

[OLE' SORE KNEES]

Leave old pole in with phases tied in ? I work for a utility and on easement transfers we wreck out old pole down to Ma Bell and leave it there.What kind of outfit would do that ? I can see where that is frustrating,what have you accomplished by doing that ?Where is this at ?

[A Laska Lineman]

The new generation of kids and some apprentices are what I call Condo Kids. They have grown up in a condo and their front yard is the living room and their backyard is their bedroom. They have no idea what the color of dirt is, don't know there might be more than one layer and it takes a shovel to find out. Growing up in Alaska and living on a small homestead on the side of a mountain has given me an advantage in life. My front yard was the valley floor and my backyard was the mountain range and I had chores to do before I could go any place. I learned that some chores took longer than a day, such as raking a 1/4 mile driveway of rocks twice a year for snow plowing. Condo kids have very little work ethics because they don't have to work. The Condo Association mows the lawn and rakes it. The Condo Association paints and fixes everything that goes wrong. There is little or no problem solving involved in life if they have grown up in one one of these places. The world and lifes little lessons are changing. I ask the apprentices what their background is so that I can figure out where they came from in life. Most rural kids can out work most city kids. I say most because there is always an exception to the rule. But I got to admit my clock is still flashing on my VCR and I'm sure one of those Condo Kids could fix that :D