supporting center phase

[markwho]

I have a question in regard to work methods when supporting a center phase during a transfer to a higher pole. We usually cover up and raise the phase above where the new arm is going and support it with a screwdriver in the pole. I was questioned about it by a supervisor, saying we lost our second layer of protection. i understood his position, but told him that is how we have been doing it for years without any problems or second thoughts. Does any one have another method they can share? Thanks

[Twink]

You mean the screw driver is supporting it on the side of the pole? As long as you have a hose and rope on it, I don't see a problem.

[Lineman North Florida]

I have a question in regard to work methods when supporting a center phase during a transfer to a higher pole. We usually cover up and raise the phase above where the new arm is going and support it with a screwdriver in the pole. I was questioned about it by a supervisor, saying we lost our second layer of protection. i understood his position, but told him that is how we have been doing it for years without any problems or second thoughts. Does any one have another method they can share? Thanks Have done the way you described, also put it on top of new pole with gut slid over phase and screwdriver drove in top of pole on both side of phase. Had to move some 795 aaac I had the transformer shop cut off an old layout arm(round fiberglass arm) about 12 inches long and epoxy the end back on it, chain bind it to new pole above where new arm is going and it works good for holding the bigger conductor, it stays in the back bin of the bucket and once some of the other crews saw it they like to borrow it now and again.:)

[Phoenix-7]

I have a question in regard to work methods when supporting a center phase during a transfer to a higher pole. We usually cover up and raise the phase above where the new arm is going and support it with a screwdriver in the pole. I was questioned about it by a supervisor, saying we lost our second layer of protection. i understood his position, but told him that is how we have been doing it for years without any problems or second thoughts. Does any one have another method they can share? Thanks

Why not rubber and float all your conductors?

[scammy]

did the supervisor tell you how he would do it?

[markwho]

thanks for the replies guys.

Lineman North Florida: I think we have a short support arm like you made with a strap binder, But it is locked away in our tool room and hardly gets used.

Phoenix-7: we are talking about raising the center phase for an arm installation.

Scammy: The only thing he mentioned was to put up the new arm and pull the center phase out and around the end of the arm. I don't really like doing that if I can avoid it, besides it is not always practical if you are doing a transfer and keeping the arm at the same elevation on the new pole. also I didn't pose the question to him.

[lineman1010]

i can think of three ways u can do this different

1. use a pole top pin, move your center phase put it on the pole top pin tie it and and your all done moving that one then frame your arms.

2. have the other guy you are working with hold the phase in his whip line while the other person hangs the arm and then lower it down and tie it in

3. hang the arm leave it lose and un lagged then bring the pahse up and then swing the arm to level off and pin the arm then tie in your phase. granted this may not work all the time becasue of clearence i dont like doing it like that but done it before.


this seems like a real easy fix. we never put phases on the pole with rubber and a screwdriver i have seen it done before but if you have a pole top pin use that or have the other guy hold it in his jib while the other guy frames the arm. i hope your not doing these 3 phase tranfers by your self.

let me know if these ways will work for you

[Meat]

Lineman beat me to it so I'll just say ditto. Lose the screwdriver!

[markwho]

Lineman1010, in the situations I am referring to, we can not get the phase to the top of the pole. sometimes we are working on middle or lower decks, although most of the time in those instances we use a sling to support the phase after we have the top arm on. I have left the arm loose and leveled it off and then pinned it before, but in this case we were lifting it too high. I guess the alternative is to hold it with the winch line or roller head on the jib while your pole buddy frames the arm. In my earlier years we only had one double bucket working the job. It is only recently that we have gone to single buckets allowing for us to work independently.

[Pootnaigle]

Bleve the easiest way If yer not gonna raise it to high is to hang the new arm at a serious tilt with the braces unnailed, Lay the center phase on the new arm at approx the middle position and let the grunts pull the arm level with the handline.Then ya nail er down and tie in the center phase. I would caution ya that if the poles on either side are vertically constructed you can pull that phase into another if the bracket it is mounted on moves with the phase as its raised. Makes for some serious fireworks and an unforgettable racket.

[lineman1010]

i hear ya on what you are saying where u cant use a pole top pin, while in that case like u said your pole buddy can hold it while u frame the arms. another thing u can do is take a rope strap tie it off to your arm or something you can rig off of isolate with an apoxolater in a swing angle clampand just let it float there, thats alot safer than the screw driver. thats alot more more to do then just putting the screw driver in the pole with a couple of guts that works just fine, if your saftey guy doesnt like just the guts throw a blanket around the pole and where u will lay the phase over the screw driver now u have more rubber there and it looks better

[OLE' SORE KNEES]

You can always place a connector inverted on the gut for double insulation where it lays on the screwdriver.

[lewy]

We always put the center phase in the jib & move the phase up & away , after covering the 2 outside phases. We also put the top pin on the new pole on the ground , then after setting the new pole we just clamp it in too the new pole.

[mainline]

We often use the same method that you describe. The supers issue was with one layer of insulation correct. If that is the case simply slide on your hose then wrap a blanket around the hose where it contacts the pole. That is our rule here. 4kv one layer of insulation, 12kv and 35kv two layers. Another way we temporarily hang a phase is drive in a j lag and hang the phase off from it with a strap or rope. With the double insulation of course. I think in different situations I have use all the methods here other than the short shop made fiberglass layout arm. I wish we had one of those, if it had a fiber binder it would definitely be the cats ass. You should patent that one.

[Fiberglass Cowboy]

Have used every different way described here. Screwdrivers holding center phase in a hose, with or without a short snub rope holing it. Short hot arm strapped to pole, pole top pin already mounted, crossarm with braces and insulators already mounted. J-hooks holding phase in rubber hose with rope, phase on pole top between 2 screwdrivers in line hose. Sometimes rubber line hose laying on rubber blanket, sometimes not. Follow your safety rules and your union contract. Anything other than that, and your supervisor needs to be reminded that there is a fine line there. There is a fine line between giving a lineman a safety book and a construction standards book, and a UNION contract for him to follow and abide by; or telling him how to do his job. YOU DON'T TELL A LINEMAN HOW TO DO HIS JOB !!! HE DECIDES!!! Once a lineman is given these books and trained properly, you don't tell him how to do the work. That is up to him. Give a DOZEN different line crews the same one job, and you'll see that same job done a DOZEN different ways. That doesn't mean any particular one of those ways is wrong. If they are safe and practical, then they are all right and acceptable. If you follow your safety book and construction standards book, and your union contract (if your union); than you are fine. If not covered or cut-&-dry in those books then the supervisor needs to butt out & let you do YOUR job. You tell him,: You don't tell him how to do his job, he doesn't need to try and tell you how to do your job, or you'll be contacting the UNION to remind him of what IS and IS NOT his job ! You don't supervise people and kiss ass, he does. He doesn't do LINEWORK. You do !!! Your the LINEMAN !!! :cool:

Later Demonstrator ...... :D

[Lineman North Florida]

We often use the same method that you describe. The supers issue was with one layer of insulation correct. If that is the case simply slide on your hose then wrap a blanket around the hose where it contacts the pole. That is our rule here. 4kv one layer of insulation, 12kv and 35kv two layers. Another way we temporarily hang a phase is drive in a j lag and hang the phase off from it with a strap or rope. With the double insulation of course. I think in different situations I have use all the methods here other than the short shop made fiberglass layout arm. I wish we had one of those, if it had a fiber binder it would definitely be the cats ass. You should patent that one.http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww116/holdercd/P5190185-2.jpgMainline here is a photo of that short layout arm,or at least I hope this photo went thru. I am sure I am not the first lineman to have one of these built but it seemed like a good idea at the time and it works good, I realize there are 100 ways to do things but it is pretty handy when your changing an arm out by yourself or with one bucket etc and fairly safe, you are probably right about it having a strap instead of the chain.:)

[glover]

if you are in an easment, where you can't get a truck to it, try using two pole crabs which hold a lift stick, grab the center phase with the lift stick, which has a ring on the bottom of it. put your handline hook in the ring, untie your phase and between you, your pole buddy and the groundman you can lift some pretty heavy wire, use crabs and sticks that are big enough to hold the weight, once you have it raised, tighten down on the pole crabs wing nuts and it will hold the phase out of your way for as long as you want.
you will of course haveto have your rigging right to put the phase in pole top position. This will work all the time everytime and puts no one in a strain. you can if you feel safer put fiberglass sheilds on the phase above your head and work away...

[markwho]

well put! Guys thanks for all your input.

[Pootnaigle]

You could also use a temporary " nursing arm" ......... a 2 or 3 ft peice of arm mounted above the old arm with a brace onnit and raise the middle phase and tie er off to the nurse if theres room.

[LINCRW]

Lose the screwdriver routine....... not the safest way even if you've always done it like that.

Don't know all your details, but if you can get a screwdriver in the pole, you could either use an insulated lay out arm, or simply bolt a temp standoff on the pole and tie it in until you need to move it.

[tramp67]

Lots of different situations, methods, circumstances. I like the linehose/screwdriver method, it's quick, easy, and secure. I don't understand where your supervisor is getting the "losing a layer of protection" thing from. Your line hose is insulating the conductor from the pole, and is providing you with incidental contact protection. Where's the "second layer of protection" when the conductor is tied in on the glass - unless you are using fiberglass pins as well? The line hose is tested for the appropriate voltage for its' class. That is sufficient for the temporary insulating purpose you need to do your work. Sounds like you are working safely, following the rules, and your supervisor can't find anything legitimate to complain about.