$500k Salary Cap

[IronLine]

Finally a good effing idea. Anyone got a problem with this?

[scamplineman]

Finally a good effing idea. Anyone got a problem with this?

YUP... I gotta problem with the whole thing... This is just the beginning of the socialists movement.

First they dangle the money out in front of the drowning business.... of course they take it.

second they start telling them what they can pay their employees...

third they start telling them how to conduct their everyday business....

finally they are under complete control of the government....

2 down 2 more steps to go until the liberals are happy...



They should of just let them sink... **** fools will never learn
Step aside Here comes the great SOCIALIST COUNTRY OF LIBERAMERICA


Now Nancy's gonna start mandating that any boy over the age of twelve HAS to wear a condom to school... Instead of metal detectors in the school they will have to walk through a Latex detector.

[IronLine]

Yup! GREAT idea dude. Let 'em all go belly up, lose all those jobs. Have unemployment get hit EVEN HARDER, while some state's unemployment funds are already going broke.

Even after all this bull**** in the economy with the Big 3 and Wall Street you still have an issue with regulations? Wow.

[Figurehead]

imho it's as good an idea as possible right now. I especially like the feature of not selling back options until the loans paid. It's taxpayer money and if you need it you're accountable and it comes with conditions.

[Dave@PSE&G]

YUP... I gotta problem with the whole thing... This is just the beginning of the socialists movement.

First they dangle the money out in front of the drowning business.... of course they take it.

second they start telling them what they can pay their employees...

third they start telling them how to conduct their everyday business....

finally they are under complete control of the government....

2 down 2 more steps to go until the liberals are happy...



They should of just let them sink... **** fools will never learn
Step aside Here comes the great SOCIALIST COUNTRY OF LIBERAMERICA


Now Nancy's gonna start mandating that any boy over the age of twelve HAS to wear a condom to school... Instead of metal detectors in the school they will have to walk through a Latex detector.

Scamp,
I'm with you, they should let them crash and burn. The banking industry is the most responsible participant in this economic mess we're in.
That being said, if tax dollars are going to be used to prop these ****birds up, limit what the leaders of these irresponsible companies make. Once they re-pay the taxpayers (yeah, right), the cap comes off.
If being limited to making a half a mil a year is all that happens to these white collar criminals, and that's what they are, they're getting off easy.

[IronLine]

Okay, Scamp and Dave. Time to poney up.

Tell me what YOUR plan is for all the people who would lose their jobs if we let these companies "Crash and Burn". Ya'll have both made it clear that you are against tax payer funded social programs to help those who are unemployed and broke, so what is the solution?

[scamplineman]

Okay, Scamp and Dave. Time to poney up.

Tell me what YOUR plan is for all the people who would lose their jobs if we let these companies "Crash and Burn". Ya'll have both made it clear that you are against tax payer funded social programs to help those who are unemployed and broke, so what is the solution?


Companies are closing up there doors all over the country.... WE are Giving these others BILLIONS OF DOLLARS to keep doing ****ty business. LEt them fold GIVE THE MONEY TO THE PEOPLE THAT DESERVE IT .... The ones that gave it to the government.

These companies that are folding are producing a product or service that is needed by the public ( at least to some extent). So when they fold because of stupid business practices, where do you think these products are going to come from.... The holy spirit??? Wrong... some one has to produce them.... if we really need them.
Give this government money to the people that can come up with a sound business practice to produce a viable product and employ our people with a sustainable income.
We are just prolonging the inevitable... if they couldn't run their business before what makes you think they are going to be able to do it now???
Cap their salary at 500K ohhh there's a slap on the wrist!! You honestly think these people won't find loop holes to direct more money into their pockets??? How do you think they got where they are iin the first place.

This is what a capitalist society is all about...survival of the fittest... Not start sobbing to your mommy cause your not going to get you 1.5 mill. bonus this year..ITS ALL BULL****.... gimme gimme gimme

You think it's bad now, wait until these companies bankrupt your government or worse yet wait until our goernment owns ALL the companies...
Then you'll know what hard times are sonny.

[scamplineman]

And to answer the second part of your question... There is no WAY to solve these problems without it hurting. Any one who tells you there is, is a God **** liar.
The way the government is throwing money out the door... it may hurt worse than just letting them fold and paying the employees their Unemployment benefits for a couple years.

[Dave@PSE&G]

Okay, Scamp and Dave. Time to poney up.

Tell me what YOUR plan is for all the people who would lose their jobs if we let these companies "Crash and Burn". Ya'll have both made it clear that you are against tax payer funded social programs to help those who are unemployed and broke, so what is the solution?

The term "going under" does not mean that the office space becomes vacant. They dissolve the broken company and re-structure, and hopefully they learn from their mistakes and do things differently. Yeah, some people will lose their jobs. But that alone should not make keeping a cancerous operation afloat the burden of the taxpayers. I have never claimed to be an economic guru. But I am not an idiot either. The government is not here to support businesses that run themselves into the ground. The only reason that I can think of as to why the government is getting involved is because they are partially responsible because of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. They are covering their asses.
The bottom line is this: businesses fail every day. Even during prosperous economies. If the government goes all out (and it looks like they plan to)to cover the banks and fails, we are all f***ed. You think it's bad now? PUHLEEZE!! Our kids, and their kids, will never get out from under this burden. Is this particular generation (ours) responsible for all this? Not entirely. But I feel that we are at a crossroads here. This **** should be nipped in the bud now. Why let the fed do it? They've been f***ing things up ridiculously for years. What makes you think that will change now. It won't be pleasant, but I'm willing to take the hit. If you love your kids and/or grandchildren, you should be willing to take a hit now, too.

[Dave@PSE&G]

Companies are closing up there doors all over the country.... WE are Giving these others BILLIONS OF DOLLARS to keep doing ****ty business. LEt them fold GIVE THE MONEY TO THE PEOPLE THAT DESERVE IT .... The ones that gave it to the government.

These companies that are folding are producing a product or service that is needed by the public ( at least to some extent). So when they fold because of stupid business practices, where do you think these products are going to come from.... The holy spirit??? Wrong... some one has to produce them.... if we really need them.
Give this government money to the people that can come up with a sound business practice to produce a viable product and employ our people with a sustainable income.
We are just prolonging the inevitable... if they couldn't run their business before what makes you think they are going to be able to do it now???
Cap their salary at 500K ohhh there's a slap on the wrist!! You honestly think these people won't find loop holes to direct more money into their pockets??? How do you think they got where they are iin the first place.

This is what a capitalist society is all about...survival of the fittest... Not start sobbing to your mommy cause your not going to get you 1.5 mill. bonus this year..ITS ALL BULL****.... gimme gimme gimme

You think it's bad now, wait until these companies bankrupt your government or worse yet wait until our goernment owns ALL the companies...
Then you'll know what hard times are sonny.

CLAPCLAPCLAPCLAPCLAPCLAPCLAPCLAPCLAPCLAPCLAPCLAPCL AP!! ****, straight!! Preach it, Brother! :D

[Boomer gone soft]

These jerkoffs definitely do not need rewarded for running a company into the ground and then taking a handout.

Let's be clear, yes it is a handout.

But IT IS NECESSARY. Every failure further threatens each of the jobs that are left.

Dave and Scamp seem to forget that each of those lost jobs represent an AMERICAN FAMILY.

Sure other companies may make those widgets we need, but they may not be American.....but then again I guess you would just say the market mandates those jobs be in China.

It's about time the message is sent to the CEO's: EVERYBODY CAN BE REPLACED.

I can't be convinced any of these ****bags is worth MILLIONS......

MAYBE WE SHOULD OUTSOURCE THE TOP JOBS?:D

[Boomer gone soft]

Ya THINK?:rolleyes:
Hell, "Movie Stars" are worth 5-15 MILLION a Movie! BUT...THAT's OK.

NOT that I think CEO's are worth THAT much money, but......
just go on down to the street corner, and "Hire a CEO" for.....oh....Microsoft, or Proctor and Gamble, or maby Dow Chemical. Yup...they're a dime a dozen.:p

We've tried "Outsourcing" CEO Jobs. They're just as expensive. Yeah....****...ANYBODY can be a CEO. Just like ANYBODY can be a lineman.

Hell, I'm a perfect example, right!!:D I don't know a god**** thing bout this here trade......:rolleyes:

Find a lineman on that corner.
Find a lawyer on that corner.
Find a doctor on that corner.
Find a fireman on that corner.
Find a policeman on that corner.
Find an engineer on that corner.
Find an astronaut on that corner.
Find an airline pilot on that corner.
Find an EMT on that corner.
Find a teacher on that corner....etc., etc.

as if just anyone could do any of these jobs....

that still doesn't make a CEO worth that much....more than the President or any Senator, Representative, or Judge.

Nor does it make ANYONE IRREPLACEABLE!

whatever.



dumbass

[wtdoor67]

I have seen linemen that thought they were irreplacable. Didn't seem to be so.

Movie stars and entertainers sell a different product. If they fall out of favor then they're out on the street. Ever heard of "one hit wonders?"

If enough of these co's fail then some CEO's will be out on the street. Of course that's where the old golden parachute kicks in. However old Burney Madoff has a way of dealing with some of that gold.


Hell, I'm a perfect example, right!! I don't know a god**** thing bout this here trade......~~~~~~~~~~~Swampfag quote~You got that right Mr. Diverse/Technical.

[Dave@PSE&G]

Let's be clear, yes it is a handout.

But IT IS NECESSARY. Every failure further threatens each of the jobs that are left.

Dave and Scamp seem to forget that each of those lost jobs represent an AMERICAN FAMILY.



I haven't forgotten anything. I am aware that when companies go down, jobs may go too. What we are talking about is the government getting into the banking business. The banks got themselves into this mess through shoddy lending practices. That is not the taxpayers fault. If the government spends $700 billion and these companies fail again, we all go down. The government should not keep a week business from failing. Period. I don't care how many jobs are lost. It is the wrong thing to do. The failed bank's assets would be picked up in a restructuring, and most of the jobs would be safe anyway. Again, bankrupt doesn't mean the bank disappears. Even if a bank fails, it has assets. All the houses that it is holding the notes on are assets. Real estate, or real property, is a commodity. To put themselves back together, they would have to raise some capital, streamline the business, and not f*** up again.

I don't want anyone to lose their job. But if it's a choice between 1,000 workers and 1,000,000 taxpayers... Sorry, but the bank employees lose.

[Orgnizdlbr]

I haven't forgotten anything. I am aware that when companies go down, jobs may go too. What we are talking about is the government getting into the banking business. The banks got themselves into this mess through shoddy lending practices. That is not the taxpayers fault. If the government spends $700 billion and these companies fail again, we all go down. The government should not keep a week business from failing. Period. I don't care how many jobs are lost. It is the wrong thing to do. The failed bank's assets would be picked up in a restructuring, and most of the jobs would be safe anyway. Again, bankrupt doesn't mean the bank disappears. Even if a bank fails, it has assets. All the houses that it is holding the notes on are assets. Real estate, or real property, is a commodity. To put themselves back together, they would have to raise some capital, streamline the business, and not f*** up again.

I don't want anyone to lose their job. But if it's a choice between 1,000 workers and 1,000,000 taxpayers... Sorry, but the bank employees lose.

Well, it would be nice, if it was that simple. Take for instance the note the bank holds on the house purchased for $750,000 that is now worth $500,000. The owner has negative equity, cant pay it back, and walks away.

If the bank goes bankrupt, does that bankrupsy only effect the employees of the bank?.. When the home buyer cant pay the mortgage and walks away, does it only effect the bank. Compound the scenerio many times, who does it effect?

[wtdoor67]

I recall a short conversation once in a coffee shop. This old depression era (the one in the 1930's, not the present one) guy said. I don't know why the govt. had to come up with all those programs to put people to work and everything, like the WPA and stuff. I said. Hell man, people were starving for something to eat. His answer. Oh well, they'd have figured something out.

[Dave@PSE&G]

Well, it would be nice, if it was that simple. Take for instance the note the bank holds on the house purchased for $750,000 that is now worth $500,000. The owner has negative equity, cant pay it back, and walks away.

If the bank goes bankrupt, does that bankrupsy only effect the employees of the bank?.. When the home buyer cant pay the mortgage and walks away, does it only effect the bank. Compound the scenerio many times, who does it effect?

There is no simple answer. If a bank goes under, it hurts a lot of people, directly and indirectly. Even if the owner of a house walks away from a
$750k mortgage, the house is still there. The bank will take the partial loss but it still has the real estate. It can be resold. They can use the real estate to raise capital for the re-structuring.

Here's the thing. If someone is going to walk away from their mortgage, there is nothing that can be done about that. Here's the crossroads; the bank absorbs the loss now, but eventually recovers. Or goes out of business. Or merges with other, stronger banks. It is how the banking industry works. When banks run efficiently and things are good, they make money hand over fist and no one *****es about it. But when banks run like **** and drive themselves into the ground, the consequences of that is the scenario that we have today. That is part of the business world. Sink or swim. What is the sense in dumping a ****load of tax dollars into a business that has not shown enough financial prudence to keep itself afloat? What happens if/when the same institution fails again? We the people don't get paid back. Propping up the banks with tax dollars is a FLAWED plan. Mark my words. Unless these banks are forced to change their business model, the same thing will likely happen again.

We either pay now or pay later. Like everyhing else, the price goes up with time. Pick your poison.

[Orgnizdlbr]

There is no simple answer. If a bank goes under, it hurts a lot of people, directly and indirectly. Even if the owner of a house walks away from a
$750k mortgage, the house is still there. The bank will take the partial loss but it still has the real estate. It can be resold. They can use the real estate to raise capital for the re-structuring.

Here's the thing. If someone is going to walk away from their mortgage, there is nothing that can be done about that. Here's the crossroads; the bank absorbs the loss now, but eventually recovers. Or goes out of business. Or merges with other, stronger banks. It is how the banking industry works. When banks run efficiently and things are good, they make money hand over fist and no one *****es about it. But when banks run like **** and drive themselves into the ground, the consequences of that is the scenario that we have today. That is part of the business world. Sink or swim. What is the sense in dumping a ****load of tax dollars into a business that has not shown enough financial prudence to keep itself afloat? What happens if/when the same institution fails again? We the people don't get paid back. Propping up the banks with tax dollars is a FLAWED plan. Mark my words. Unless these banks are forced to change their business model, the same thing will likely happen again.

We either pay now or pay later. Like everyhing else, the price goes up with time. Pick your poison.

Multiply the scenerio many times, who buys the house after the previous owner walks away? Specifically when the sub prime mortgage failure has tightened the credit market so that credit worthy individuals and businesses cant borrow?

What other portion of business is impacted by the scenerio above? Is it only real estate and banking?

Of course there should be oversight on any failing institution that receives tax payers money to stay afloat. That should be part of any assistance provided, with the stipulation that the business change it's practice whereby it became financially troubled.

I dont have any answers to the problem, but I dont see how we allow these business to fail helps the crisis we are in. And, we are in a crisis, we havent seen the bottom yet, there is alot more to come.......

[Boomer gone soft]

First of all the bank bailout is completely seperate from the CEO salary cap. If we help a business with tax dollars the boss should have a salary cap. period. If you or I screwed up that badly we would be before the e-board, have our tickets jerked, and end up on the street.:confused:....why are Republicans and Cyber Idiots thinking it's a good idea to REWARD that kind of performance?

Let's not forget when the companies fail it means management were failures. The Russians have a proverb: The fish always rots from the head.

Secondly, a foreclosure affects not just the bank and the property involved. It also affects the values of the nearby properties. Then when those values are reduced even more people are upside down in their mortgages.

There's no easy answer, but it certainly is not unreasonable for the tax payer to be repaid BEFORE the stock options are exercised.

[Dave@PSE&G]

Wow. These are the people who are going to save the country. Next election, regardless of party affiliation, vote out the incumbant. These ball busters don't get it. :(




http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/05/campbell.brown.congress/index.html

[Dave@PSE&G]

Multiply the scenerio many times, who buys the house after the previous owner walks away? Specifically when the sub prime mortgage failure has tightened the credit market so that credit worthy individuals and businesses cant borrow?

What other portion of business is impacted by the scenerio above? Is it only real estate and banking?

Of course there should be oversight on any failing institution that receives tax payers money to stay afloat. That should be part of any assistance provided, with the stipulation that the business change it's practice whereby it became financially troubled.

I dont have any answers to the problem, but I dont see how we allow these business to fail helps the crisis we are in. And, we are in a crisis, we havent seen the bottom yet, there is alot more to come.......


I know, man. I know. I guess my problem is that I have absolutely no confidence in the banking industry after they ran themselves up onto the rocks, and only slightly more confidence that our leaders have a clue about what they are doing. I mean, what do they have to lose? If they throw billions down the toilet here, so what? They're still all millionaires. Taxes have to go up to fund the mistake? No problem. Half of them don't pay taxes, and the others have accountants and loopholes galore. There isn't one elected official in Washington who will feel it like the average middle class family. It's even worse for those at or below the poverty line. And we are going to trust them to handle this? I feel sick to my stomach.

If now isn't the time for a flat tax, when would it be appropriate? I believe it was Steve Forbes, a bunch of years ago, who suggested a 13% flat tax across the board. I don't know about you guys, but that would lower my tax bill. What would be more fair than everyone chipping in here?

[thrasher]

Dave, I like the idea of a flat tax, also then maybe Obama wouldn't be embrassed by all his nominees that can't figure out thier taxes either.

[Orgnizdlbr]

A flat tax would be fine with me......never happen though:(

[scamplineman]

A flat tax would be fine with me......never happen though:(


The only reason it wouldn't happen is because the elected officials and there financial backers would end up paying there fair share.

I still can't believe that the majority of people feel that this "stimulus " bill is going to be some kind of resurection... The wool has been pulled down over your eyes....

1400 jobs were lost in the Dewitt area of NY yesterday... Employees voted down the wage concession offered out by the company. I believe it was a 15% cut.
Employees were told that if the concession was voted down the doors would close.... Well they are closed.
The Union spokes person was quoted as saying that they didn't feel it was the way to go... because if they went from 20 dollars an hour to 15 ... and the company still had to close down in 6 months or a year the employees Unemployment benefits would then be figured at a lower scale.
SO NOW they get there 6 months of higher Unemployment wages and then they have a big fat NOTHING when that runs out... think I'd take my chances on having a job for another year or so, I'm sure my family would appreciate it also... dumbasses... I love it when some big mouth organizer makes a decision that affects the lives of 1400 people ... whether they eat or not>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

It just makes me sick to think that SOOOO many people are fooled by the words of a "community organizer". Good luck to you all, when the **** finally does hit the fan let me know... I may be able to take a few of you in and feed you for a couple weeks... Course then I will take you out back and shoot you, using your remains as fertilizer for my garden .... to grow more food for the next round:D

[scamplineman]

These jerkoffs definitely do not need rewarded for running a company into the ground and then taking a handout.

Let's be clear, yes it is a handout.

But IT IS NECESSARY. Every failure further threatens each of the jobs that are left.

Dave and Scamp seem to forget that each of those lost jobs represent an AMERICAN FAMILY.

Sure other companies may make those widgets we need, but they may not be American.....but then again I guess you would just say the market mandates those jobs be in China.

It's about time the message is sent to the CEO's: EVERYBODY CAN BE REPLACED.

I can't be convinced any of these ****bags is worth MILLIONS......

MAYBE WE SHOULD OUTSOURCE THE TOP JOBS?:D

I have not forgotten anything about those familys... infact I lay in bed EVERY night hoping that tommorrow all my family makes it through their day with out losing their job.
The government has given out what ... 300, 400 billion in stimulus packages so far???
What did it do?????? Absolutely nothing... things are getting worse, aren't they??? Obama thinks so, he claims if his new package isn't signed off on immediatly we will flounder and collapse.
So if 400 billion of missapropriated funds did nothing for our economy, how is 900 billion going to help??? Give me some COLD HARD FACTS. Cmon change my mind for me...Please. I don't want my kids to live the rest of their lives dealing with this mess WE created.
If the powers to be would let things play out on their own they'd have over a trillion dollars in Missappropriated funds to deal with unemployment issues and helping the new fortune 500 companies off the ground to start producing the products we great Americans do desire.
They ( crooked government) won't let it happen, because they being vested in these companies stand too much to lose. And that is the TRUTH