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madcowboy33
01-31-2008, 07:10 PM
Are you guys getting this buck squeeze shoved down your throats. Our companies fixing to make this mandatory for all lineman. Boys I am a journeyman lineman, not a hydrolic lineman they can keep that crap!!!!!!!!!!!

theweber
02-01-2008, 04:51 PM
Your company and and the one i work for are just getting a head start on the new OSHA fall restraint order that is coming down from on high in a few months. No free climbing will be the rule soon . I will be able to choose between the Buck squeeze or Pole choker . For getting around bell drops we will be using a new rope safety for repositioning then go back to the buck or choker . From the ground to the first obstacle it has to be in the fall restraint mode but we can use it a regular safety as long as there is a obstacle within 6 to 8 feet under our climbers to stop us. Free climbing will be the next story to tell the new kids of how i was done in the old days. You can mark my words that we will be hearing about someone being fired in the next year for not using it :eek:

madcowboy33
02-01-2008, 05:34 PM
We are pretty staunch on not wanting to use it. Some say its coming from osha and some say thats a lie and management is pushing it, its hard to fight osha. I was just wondering what the word was for the rest of the country. Is there actual lineman that like this proposal, I would like to hear the benefits. If it was a clean pole thats one thing, but man our easments are full of stuff and we have many easments and take pride in climbing and working out of hooks. We recently had an ice storm w/ 200,000 outages they called in as many non-union contractors as possible and you wouldnt believe the crews that wouldnt climb.

polemonkey
02-02-2008, 07:46 PM
Cowboy,my company uses the bucksqueeze and I agree that it is a pain but after it gets broke in and a lot of use you can almost use it to get around as well as before it

Lnhnd13
02-02-2008, 08:53 PM
check out my posts, and thanks for stepping up to be steward.

old lineman
02-02-2008, 10:50 PM
Your company and and the one i work for are just getting a head start on the new OSHA fall restraint order that is coming down from on high in a few months. No free climbing will be the rule soon . I will be able to choose between the Buck squeeze or Pole choker . For getting around bell drops we will be using a new rope safety for repositioning then go back to the buck or choker . From the ground to the first obstacle it has to be in the fall restraint mode but we can use it a regular safety as long as there is a obstacle within 6 to 8 feet under our climbers to stop us. Free climbing will be the next story to tell the new kids of how i was done in the old days. You can mark my words that we will be hearing about someone being fired in the next year for not using it :eek:

I have been with the linemen using different generations of fall restricting equipment for at least 20 years. The first products needed lots of improvements and now they have it down pat.
Of course some will never agree.
One thing I would like you to reconsider.
You mentioned a second safety strap for use when passing over obstacles. If you mean another pole strap that is too much stuff hanging from your belt to get tangled up.
Go on the web and look at the Jelco retractable strap for that purpose. When not being utilized it retracts back into a neat case about the size of your fist.
Most linemen place it on the left side just behind the left DEE. Make sure to encompass the belt and not a tool loop.
Good luck.
The Old Lineman

Patriot
02-03-2008, 12:48 AM
Where can I find a picture of this device? I am sure if rumors are circulating to become mandatory by OSHA, then it probably will!

polemonkey
02-03-2008, 10:39 AM
just look on the buckinham web site

madcowboy33
02-03-2008, 11:08 AM
Some of the manufacturers are miller, bucksqueeze, and jelco. There is a little more to it then a second safety strap. If you guys have been using it and its fine then maybe my bunch needs to have an open mind about it.

madcowboy33
02-03-2008, 11:17 AM
linehand 13, Do we work for the same co. Right now all thats required to wear it is our 1st yrs, like linehands group when they make 2nd they qualify out of it. It takes our 1st yrs 30 min. to climb a pole, granted some dont know the differance, but the 1st yrs that came from somewhere else hate it and I mean hate it. Watching them climb with it looks like a bunch of junk. Thanks for refering me to your posts.

theweber
02-04-2008, 01:14 AM
I have been with the linemen using different generations of fall restricting equipment for at least 20 years. The first products needed lots of improvements and now they have it down pat.
Of course some will never agree.
One thing I would like you to reconsider.
You mentioned a second safety strap for use when passing over obstacles. If you mean another pole strap that is too much stuff hanging from your belt to get tangled up.
Go on the web and look at the Jelco retractable strap for that purpose. When not being utilized it retracts back into a neat case about the size of your fist.
Most linemen place it on the left side just behind the left DEE. Make sure to encompass the belt and not a tool loop.
Good luck.
The Old Lineman

We have been using the jelco retractable strap for some time and when the no free climbing rule for us will be in June the jelco will be outlawed for us.We have had a lot of them jamming up . I will post more on the jam up when i get the info. I am ordering the pole choker . For the ones that bought the retractable safety the company is going to give the money back. The repositioning safety i was talking about is a 1/2" rope with two snaps. I will post pics when i can .

Mouse
02-04-2008, 08:26 AM
We have been using the jelco retractable strap for some time and when the no free climbing rule for us will be in June the jelco will be outlawed for us.We have had a lot of them jamming up . I will post more on the jam up when i get the info. I am ordering the pole choker . For the ones that bought the retractable safety the company is going to give the money back. The repositioning safety i was talking about is a 1/2" rope with two snaps. I will post pics when i can .

The Jelco retractable belts are not designed to utilize for climbing, merely providing a temporary safety strap to climb above any obstructions encountered to satisfy the 100% fall protection while a climber unhooks the fall restraint belt. When they outlaw free climbing except in emergency situations, a climber will still be able to utilize the retractable lanyards for its intended purpose. They are designed to "Jam Up" so when a person falls it catches, like a seat belt with any quick jerking motion causing it to "catch". So far most older lineman I've talked to dislike the 100% fall protection as they have been trained on free climbing and dislike the added technique the new belts require. A lot of the apprentices learning on the Pole Chokers have not experienced anything different, so complain less and get fairly good at climbing utilizing the fall protection belts. Here is a link to one type of the Jelco Belts:

http://www.polechoker.com/en/products.html?MID=105

theweber
02-04-2008, 07:56 PM
When i was talking about the "Jam Up" i was referring to it not letting out when it was all the way retracted. And yes it is for repositioning only. That is why i called it a strap and not a safety.
We to have old head's that don't like the 100% fall protection.

madcowboy33
02-04-2008, 09:13 PM
Ive been looking in osha website and I cant find anything about it. I keep hearing they are pushing it. Does anyone know of a link with proof and not just hearsay?

old lineman
02-04-2008, 10:09 PM
When i was talking about the "Jam Up" i was referring to it not letting out when it was all the way retracted. And yes it is for repositioning only. That is why i called it a strap and not a safety.
We to have old head's that don't like the 100% fall protection.


Actually that's the first time I've heard of the jamming problem. Perhaps your letting it retract at full speed and it's going in too far.
It shouldn't jam but I'm not doubting you.
If you are using the retractable with the self-locking carabiner I also would suggest that you abtain the model the bolts directly to you body belt. Model #13123.
I wouldn't like to deal with that device clamped to my positioning DEE.
When using this device you never lean back into it to do any work. It's only there to arrest a fall. I know most have made note of this but some may think that's OK when it isn't.
I found a lineman's belt once with the unit bolted to a tool loop during inspection. That's a real no, no. Follow the mounting instructions.
The tool loops are only leather and don't meet any standard for arresting a fall. They will tear apart quicker than a blink of the eye.
The Old Lineman

theweber
02-05-2008, 08:29 PM
This is the repositioning strap we will be using. It is 1/2" rope .

http://www.buckinghammfg.com/catalog/pdffiles/fallprocatalog0807.pdf

Model 7+N08A15A2M

lewy
02-06-2008, 05:38 PM
I have used the Jelco for 15 years & have had no problems with it. We have all of our belts & harness checked annually & if any defects are found they are replaced.

just say no
02-22-2008, 10:52 PM
sounds like a pain..:mad:

lewy
02-23-2008, 12:04 AM
You get used to it & not too often it matters how fast you get up the pole , just wether you know what you are doing when you get there.

aeplineman
02-23-2008, 02:18 AM
is getting ready to go 100% fall restraint. We have no option about which one we get to use. They are making us use the buck squeeze. They said that by June ALL employees would be mandated to wear when climbing. One issue we did have is the Buckingham retractable seat belt safety. We heard reports of them jamming up and also of them turning loose when moving buck around attachments. My shop have chosen to go with the buckingham rope safety. How is it everywhere else?

snoman
07-01-2008, 10:57 PM
It is a device that causes extreme fatigue during multiple climbs. They are currently having trouble with the "paddle" falling off due to rivet failure. There should be a exemption clause for experienced climbers and maintain a semi annual Proficiency screening. You may see the Rodeo guys proving it is as competitive as a free climb, but look close at the strap, it is normally let way out or is a transmission strap on a distribution pole and if they were to cut out, the buck squeeze would not provide fall arrest.

old lineman
07-02-2008, 09:15 AM
As far as I know there are 4 legitimate fall restricting devices for wood pole climbing. Three of them got started in Canada, the 4th in the USA.
The first was made by Scepter and was called "THE POLE SHARK", it is bulky and was great for climbing clear poles but never took off on distribution.
The second was made by Jelco and has gone through extensive research by Hydro Quebec. Presently it is on it's forth generation and has been certified for both dry and iced poles. It is called "THE POLE CHOKER". This one is widely used in Canada and it robust and has been performing well.

The 3rd one is manufactured by Miller (Bacou-Dalloz) and is called the "STOP FALL". This brand seems to be finnicky and failed repeatedly under test conditions.

The 4th is the "BUCK SQUEEZE" manufactured by Buckingham. I know nothing about them except that they are all designed to do the same thing.
Also every lineman who has a few years under his belt doesn't like them to start. The new apprentices on the other hand take to them like a duck to water.
I believe that customer satisfaction will be highest with the Jelco Pole Choker. For those of you who insist on buying the Buck Squeeze you'll just have to put up with their less than desireable life expectancy or you could check out the Canadian (American owned ) brand Pole Choker which has all of the bugs worked out and is performing well and has been for at least a decade.
Long before Buckingham even thought about them.
Quit yer *****en.
The Old Lineman

lewy
07-02-2008, 04:39 PM
We use the polechoker 4 along with the jelco retractable lanyard.
I am not going to pretend that it is as smooth as just a pole strap, but it is not a real pain in the ass to use either.

Doggboi
07-05-2008, 09:26 PM
SC E&G has implimented a 'pilot' program and given the bucksqueeze to a series of Lineman and Apprentices.
One of the lineman is my lead, he also is a former Rodeo winner and by no stretch of the imagination a carrier of water for the company. His view is it isnt that bad once you get used to it. Yes, there are issues climbing around and above things, its not evil , but he liked he could secure above a bank , and take the step and still be connected.
One of the trainers at our inhouse school was able to beat the apprentices that free climbed in a hurt man rescue climb. His words were.. 'it goes against every idea I have taught previously , but it works.'

I have taken a single climb in it , and it wore me out, but if it keeps people on the pole.. it is what it is.

johnbellamy
07-07-2008, 12:49 AM
..........................

Doggboi
07-07-2008, 06:52 AM
Do I have stock? nope, getting a kickback? I wish. But things are changing everywhere.

The new green poles are harder to stick , and you have an influx of hundreds if not thousands of new apprentice. In our crew quarters the apprentices out number the journeymen. Sometimes its hard to work out a proper crew just to finish a job. Our system is largely new, and mostly underground.
I came from a rat contractor where I was on a pole every day , when I came here I wasnt allowed to climb until I started the company school. Since that time I can count the poles that have been made available to me on bared feet and hands.
We will have to send one of our guys out of system so he can get his gloving hours in.

Am I carrying water for the company or buckingham? hell no , but if the training, supervision and experiance isnt made available to give people the proper skills, you better come up with a better way to ensure their safety and those around them.

In the not so distant past , an apprentice came out of a pole , and came down on the jopurneyman below, sending the apps gaff down the top of the linemans arm. It did enough damage that the lineman is on ltd. One apprentice ended up with a 4 inch splinter.. these are just two examples of what happens every day.


Quit ****in with my trade

Why dont you do something about it? You cant. The unions, government and companies have been going in a direction that you havent wanted I am sure since the day you got your card. Why should it change now?


People need to quite promotin this **** on this board, Every time I turn around it something different, enough of this ****.

Come up with something better

Bull Dog
07-07-2008, 11:07 AM
I have to say dog boy is one smart guy hey. Hes telling us there is a problem with no journey people to train the new guy! Boy is he sharp. Da who knew! We have been telling the company's that for 10 years! You telling us something we don't know? The company's didn't care and now there trying to make it safe for the new guys? What a joke. There is no replacement for experience and all the butt squeezes in the world won't help. So don't give me that crap about making it safe you cant undo the damage these greedy *******s have done with a butt squeeze. I agree they must do this your right. Better question would be how did we get into this in the first place and how will the damage be undone. Personally It may be to late. There are a few management guys on here I think. If your management get off please this is a union site. We don't need your greedy messed up pea brain thinking. You have done enough damage already. Get lost! PROUD TO BE UNION and never used a butt squeeze.

old lineman
07-07-2008, 05:06 PM
I like to read the postings and see what wisdom they impart.
What I find interesting is that no matter what subject is up, the conversation always turns to union vs non-union and management bashing.
Makes me wonder who is the pea brain out there.
First of all there is no one one this site that will make a penny off of any of these safety products.
Secondly I have been on the front line of those who make the legislation and we fought against stupidity but had to relent on viable safety solutions.
The workers and companies were always against the new whatever. So to blame the employers shows that you don't know **** about how these things develop and get going. It all boils down to accident prevention which takes too many hard working souls out of the picture.
You have no idea what it cost to lose a worker to an accident. The last I heard the average WCB claim costs approximately $95,000.00.
Thirdly this is not an exclusive site for unionized workers. To listen to you guys talk, your the one and everybody else is just cannon fodder.
When a man sits down to the table to give thanks and enjoy his dinner with his family I don't think the wife and kids give a **** whether the bread winner is in a union or not as long as there is something to eat. Granted there likely will be higher quality food on the union man's table but to some existence is the aim.
Wars have been fought and will be fought over food and oil and maybe some day water.
Why do you think a man has no right to work if he can't be in a union.
It makes no sense and it just shows how narrow minded some people can get. When you look down your nose at a guy who is sweating his nuts off to provide for his family, I look at him and say you are my hero. You aren't abandoning your responsibilities because the going gets tough.
God have mercy on your soul, Mr. Almighty.
The Old Lineman

madcowboy33
07-07-2008, 07:23 PM
What the hell, Is there any real climbing Lineman left, Don't say you are and promote the fall restraint, If you really climbed then you would see no need in it. Anyway thanks for shoving it down my throat to where it is now mandated. I'm calling you a *****, ***** is what ***** does!!!!!!!!!!!!

madcowboy33
07-07-2008, 08:42 PM
When all of us got into this trade we knew it was a dangerous job, The fact that we can do the things we do make us proud people, make us a different click of people, we are nothing like power planters, metermen, engineers, we are almost like the delta force of the electric utility. Some of you so called lineman are going to make it a place for women and children to work. If ya cant climb cause your scared then go be a meter reader!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Doggboi
07-07-2008, 09:22 PM
where do you get this anger? are you drunk?

I am not saying i disagree with you, its just coming. And the journeymen have been fighting with the companies, and unions for so long now .. what good does it do to fight this?

What are you going to do about this.. we the apprentice , look to you the journeymen for answers, and all you are doing is *****ing about it, and playing the blame game.

This is still in the 6th most dangerous career, still the ones holding the high voltage... the ones out in the middle of the night, in the storms etc.. and in case you hadnt notcied, there are 'kids' joining the ranks already.

madcowboy33
07-07-2008, 09:45 PM
Bub, the journeyman are the ones promoting this, It's not all coming from the company and OSHA has nothing mandating the fall restraint, I know this from personally fighting this for our work center. My co. there was made up a team called the pole safety committee. It was made up of mostly Lineman and some safety guys, Of the Lineman they have accessible easements in their district, When they come to our town on storm break they have hydrolic crews and refuse to do any climbing. This is no sh!!t. A union president from the east was one of the biggest advocates for this. Hey if you feel like you need one use it, but I dont. My co. was going to make it ground to ground, heres my problem. We have cable drops on every pole going everywhere making it a real hassel to unbelt all the time. What about all the dips. What about climbing slack spans and bucking wire together, cause I havent witnessed anyone cat walking a pole with a fall restraint. We no longer have to use it ground to ground, But through submitting petitions and online input to the co. Our work center has got it to where you have to wear it 4 ft from any attachment. I personally went to union meeting all over our state and called neighboring state local to sign the petition wasting my own gas. so dont tell me we are not fighting and are just *****ing, maybe you are not fighting. Thats where my anger comes, its from fighting everyday. There are Lineman who lay down and there are Lineman who are fighters, I was raised in the trade this way. We dont breed pussies in T-town.

Bull Dog
07-07-2008, 11:35 PM
Now I'd like to point out one thing to those who think we shouldn't be turning this into a union vs management issue. What is the name of this thread? This is the union issues thread, no management allowed. Non union FINE IF YOUR A LINEMAN. Understand this is the lineman forum! So if this is not a union issue why are you talking about it here? If your management GET THE HELL OFF. Safety and the butt squeeze are not about safety. Its about money. Some one is getting rich. Kind of like traffic cameras. They tell us its all about safety and then they make up for the state short fall with the money. Who they kidding! You can"t bull **** the dog.

grizzlybuck
07-08-2008, 01:07 PM
I'll jump in the fray, my company now has a new "fall restraint policy" that took effect June 30th. I think it is total BS as well. I learned to climb on green poles, yes they can be harder than hammered hell, but if taught how to properly climb, they can be climbed safely.

I spoke with a very grizzled veteran last night about this issue, and he was a safety man back in the mid to late Seventies for a rural Co-op and he said that the Government was making rumblings then, and some in OSHA could not believe that linemen did not have proper fall restraint back then.

I agree also with Cowboy, that linemen on these committees are either helping to push this, or are at least keeping quiet when it comes to objecting to having this trash shoved down our throats. This does not surprise me as the vast majority of "linemen" that I have seen on these committees are a there to get seen and promoted, or they have been "chosen/selected" by supervision or management to represent their respective areas (usually also meaning they will side with the company)

It pisses me off that the career that I have grown proud of is being dumbed down so that any schmoe off the street can do it. The problem is (as others have already stated) that companies across the nation have let the stockholders and bean counters cut manpower to the bone. We are now left in a situation where a guy is an apprentice one day working for a Journeyman, reaches top step the next day and is out running a crew with apes.

The only way companies can see a cheap way out this mess is to dictate these BS rules. Some if not most of these rules are dreamt up by engineers, management and others who have never done the work, and the few experienced hands on these committees who should tell them how unworkable some of the ideas are, are biting their tongues so as to not shoot down their chances at promotion.

I fear that the system is broken to the point where we will see more and more of these policies that are there to protect the companies from being fined and sued for their past incompetence.

old lineman
07-08-2008, 01:54 PM
Instead of getting all cranked up about how this category gets contaminated by off topic issues go back to the first post and see for yourself who did it and straighten them out.
All the following posts are just responses to a subjuct that shouldn't have been in this category in the first place.
I agree, but I tend to respond regardless of where I find it. I know this doesn't make it right, but don't shoot the messenger.
The Old Lineman

BigClive
07-08-2008, 03:38 PM
When all of us got into this trade we knew it was a dangerous job, The fact that we can do the things we do make us proud people, make us a different click of people, we are nothing like power planters, metermen, engineers, we are almost like the delta force of the electric utility. Some of you so called lineman are going to make it a place for women and children to work. If ya cant climb cause your scared then go be a meter reader!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How very American. Lets all be HEROES and when we fall or get burned we'll go whimpering off to a lawyer and blame everybody but ourselves. :confused:

Do linemen behave like this in any other country than America?

It's the electrical industry equivalent of firemen riding on the back of their firetrucks for the attention instead of inside like in any normal country. Maybe it's an industrial form of attention deficit disorder.


Of course, you know what will really happen with the fall arrestors. The kids will train up using them, then get lazy and leave them off and free climb. ;)

Lnhnd13
07-08-2008, 06:34 PM
No, the kids will be to **** scared to free climb.
The real point of this is to dumb down my trade. The fear of climbing weeds alot of punks out of linework. What you will have is dumber lineman that will get themselves hurt in another situation.

This co. will spend countless dollars on fall restraint, claiming its for safety, then let our 2-man wonder wagons go out and do 4-man crew work. Tell me what that message is. Even after all the accidents at our co. that appear could have been prevented if the crews were properly manned.

wtdoor67
07-08-2008, 07:24 PM
Them Calif. San Francisco linemen been using them butt squeezers for years.


One thing about it, old Swampgas will have a new line to start his stories. I can hear him now. "When I was doing linework, long before them Calif. butt squeezes come along."


I can hear them new apprentices now. "Omigod, omigod, I can't climb on this storm." "I left my butt squeeze at the shop." "Guess I'm the designated grunt." "Sorry guys." "Heh, heh."

MEGA81
07-08-2008, 08:14 PM
Them Calif. San Francisco linemen been using them butt squeezers for years.


One thing about it, old Swampgas will have a new line to start his stories. I can hear him now. "When I was doing linework, long before them Calif. butt squeezes come along."


I can hear them new apprentices now. "Omigod, omigod, I can't climb on this storm." "I left my butt squeeze at the shop." "Guess I'm the designated grunt." "Sorry guys." "Heh, heh."

Butt squeeze..Thats pretty funny. I had to climb one yesterday that was so crowded with Cable and phone( you CANT make that work look clean, little wires everywhere) I thought about what a pain in the ass fall restraint would be. The funny thing about the free climbing/fall restraint argument is that its hard to see whose right. Both sides make some pretty good points. I am just a low step, who cant find my ass from my elbow( so I have been told) so what do I know..

Fiberglass Cowboy
07-08-2008, 08:50 PM
Both of you have good points. I am 30 yrs. old now started climbing when i was 18. No fall protection. I guess there could be good points to wearing it,but i don't want any part of it,and i have fell off of more poles than anyone else that i know. But we still free climb and will,i just worked a transformer pole in my hooks today as i let my foreman run my material handler (bucket truck) and gave the ape a break as we have him climbing all the time. No BIGCLIVE,we Americans are not all arrogant John Wayne cowboys. But i look at having to use a Buckingham "Bucksqueeze" or similar as a safety issue. You see CLIVE, here in the states many big utilities have OPEN WIRE SECONDARIES, and OLD POLETOP EQUIPMENT that can very easily FAIL and start a FIRE. I personally (knock on wood,i've only ever got 1 good fire going so far and don't ever want to get another one going) don't want to have to WORRY ABOUT UNBELTING A BUCKSQUEEZE WHILE A FIRE IS GOING ON THE POLE, i want to be able to get the hell down and in the clear. Nor do i want the Bucksqueeze as a safety rule. I personally would be MORE WORRRIED ABOUT GETTING BURNT IF I GOT A FIRE STARTED AND NOT BEING ABLE TO GET AWAY FAST ENOUGH JACKING WITH SOME GOD****ED SQUEEZY THING,MORE THAN I WOULD BE WORRIED ABOUT FALLING OFF OF THE POLE. Not to mention all of the CABLE T.V. and TELEPHONE LINES we contend with just getting into a work position while climbing a pole. To have to worry about unbelting and rebelting and double safties while trying to get the hell down off of a pole where a good electrical fault (fire) is going on,is just ridiculous,AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I WOULD TELL MANAGEMENT AND THE SAFETY DEPARTMENT. In my humble opinion,it doesn't seem safe for an expirienced climber to wear one ("bucksqueeze"). Also contending with the fact that it would wear you down by the time you get to the top of a pole. Without sounding cocky (arrogant) , NO THANKYOU !!! :rolleyes:

STAY SAFE OUT THERE BROTHERS,NO MATTER WHERE OR HOW YOU CLIMB. :cool:

Doggboi
07-08-2008, 09:35 PM
Madcowboy, I am glad to hear you are doing more than just *****ing about it. And you and Fiberglass cowboy make a good point about the Slack Spans and Open Secondaries. It sure as hell beats the argument ' thats not the way we've done it up until now.. dont be a ***** '
Seriously, if your only argument to take the bucksqueeze off the must have list of companies and OSHA is that you dont want to , its not the way you have done it in the past, or its for pussies.. The companies and OSHA will beat you with the safety argument.
I would guess if you( the linemen/the anti fall restraint crowd ) Would ask for numbers/demo's about these situations, You would get a former rodeo star showing you how to walk straight up the pole without moving it , and they would tell you to pull the fuse/hot line clamp from the transformer feeding the open secondaries followed by , replace them with triplex.
The how to escape a pole fire .. well not sure how they would side step that , probly with numbers of how often it doesnt happen.

wtdoor, I dunno about your lineman , but mine would have their hooks and belt ready for said apprentice.

lnhnd13, imagine how many smart lineman havent made it through because they couldn't climb very well.. goes back to .. if you are gonna be a dumbass , you better be tough. Its up to the journeymen to weed out the guys who cant cut it. Trust them to do it ?

Personally, I dont have a side in this. I learned to climb free climbing. Since our pilot program has been in place and so many people seem to think its the way we are going to go , I asked my line sup for a buck squeeze so I could get used to it.. and he refused me. I climb when I am told to climb , and if my linman tells me to wear the buck squeeze, I will ask if I HAVE to , and if I do , I do.

lewy
07-08-2008, 09:41 PM
We have had fall restraint since around 1991 or 92 & we heard & said all the things you said & none of it materialized.
Bottom line it is comming, sooner to some places than others & you will have the same choices we had use it or quit.
I am not management have been a member of IBEW since I started.
Bottom line I liked free climbing, but I really do not find our system a big pain in the ass, again we still get as much work done as we used to & we do get paid by the hour.

wtdoor67
07-08-2008, 10:26 PM
Hell maybe it'll be a blessing in disguise. Those no climbing ass holes won't have any excuse now.

I can hear it echoing up and down the alley. "Me can't clim dat pole, I don't got me little butt squeeze wit me." "I want me mommy."

madcowboy33
07-08-2008, 10:26 PM
We have had fall restraint since around 1991 or 92 & we heard & said all the things you said & none of it materialized.
Bottom line it is comming, sooner to some places than others & you will have the same choices we had use it or quit.
I am not management have been a member of IBEW since I started.
Bottom line I liked free climbing, but I really do not find our system a big pain in the ass, again we still get as much work done as we used to & we do get paid by the hour.

Your right it is coming and we have to adjust to it or quit, I still think it is just as unsafe as it is safe. We should still be given some discretion on when we use it. Thats mainly what our fight was over.

Bull Dog
07-08-2008, 10:36 PM
I was on a pole with a journeyman after a storm with lots of lightning. We got the thing working and the journey man said I see the arrester is blown on B phase I'm going up there to change it. We were both belted below the x-fmr at that time. He went up changed the arrester came down and belted off just above me, and remember he was above the transformer that was mounted on the pole. Just as he snapped his belt BOOM the cover came off the transformer and landed a block away on the roof of a house. Oil all over us and the pole but no fire. Its my pleasure to inform you he lived to die of a heart attack years after he retired. I don't think he would have if we used butt squeeze. Dam thing will cause accidents and deaths I guarantee it. You see those that don't do the work will make the rules. Oh my they climb without fall restraint how unsafe!

madcowboy33
07-08-2008, 10:38 PM
Madcowboy, I am glad to hear you are doing more than just *****ing about it. And you and Fiberglass cowboy make a good point about the Slack Spans and Open Secondaries. It sure as hell beats the argument ' thats not the way we've done it up until now.. dont be a ***** '
Seriously, if your only argument to take the bucksqueeze off the must have list of companies and OSHA is that you dont want to , its not the way you have done it in the past, or its for pussies.. The companies and OSHA will beat you with the safety argument.
I would guess if you( the linemen/the anti fall restraint crowd ) Would ask for numbers/demo's about these situations, You would get a former rodeo star showing you how to walk straight up the pole without moving it , and they would tell you to pull the fuse/hot line clamp from the transformer feeding the open secondaries followed by , replace them with triplex.
The how to escape a pole fire .. well not sure how they would side step that , probly with numbers of how often it doesnt happen.

wtdoor, I dunno about your lineman , but mine would have their hooks and belt ready for said apprentice.

lnhnd13, imagine how many smart lineman havent made it through because they couldn't climb very well.. goes back to .. if you are gonna be a dumbass , you better be tough. Its up to the journeymen to weed out the guys who cant cut it. Trust them to do it ?

Personally, I dont have a side in this. I learned to climb free climbing. Since our pilot program has been in place and so many people seem to think its the way we are going to go , I asked my line sup for a buck squeeze so I could get used to it.. and he refused me. I climb when I am told to climb , and if my linman tells me to wear the buck squeeze, I will ask if I HAVE to , and if I do , I do.

I totally understand what you are saying, and no I don't want the fall restraint, but I truely feel that in some instances and most of our poles it is more bad than good. Did you know that the last 3 pole climbing accidents we had resulted in broken bones and all 3 were utilizing the fall restraint! I've heard about the rodeo too and the truth is , the lineman arent using it correctly going up and down. You can cheat with them still yet. Look sorry for offending anyone, I just dont feel like whats best for you maybe best for me and it is all more stupid bs.

madcowboy33
07-08-2008, 10:41 PM
Hell maybe it'll be a blessing in disguise. Those no climbing ass holes won't have any excuse now.

I can hear it echoing up and down the alley. "Me can't clim dat pole, I don't got me little butt squeeze wit me." "I want me mommy."

thanks for the laugh brother:D

Fiberglass Cowboy
07-08-2008, 11:49 PM
I have heard these "rumors" about fall restraints because cable t.v. sissy boys and telephone douchebags keep falling,BUT I FIND IT NOWHERE ON OSHA'S WEBSITE, nor have i heard jacksh!t about it around here. Sorry to hear your company gets a bunch of non-union contractors during storms. We use IBEW CONTACTORS AND OTHER FELLOW IBEW UTILITIES TO HELP US DURING STORMS HERE IN KANSAS CITY, i don't know of ANY non-union line construction companies that work here in the city,storm or not.

LATER BROSEPH :cool:

wirewalker
07-09-2008, 12:03 AM
This fall restraint is only the start of a new way of life for some of you. Get used to it. I guess if it were up to you we would still be using wooden hot sticks and the like.
I started out free climbing and heard all the excuses I see here when our company first introduced this fall arrest. The first systems were not perfect and still aren't. But at the end of the day we all want to go home.
All that time and energy wasted on *****in and complainin about the future would be better spent on coming up with a fall arrest system that is practical easy to use. Designed by linemen for linemen.

johnbellamy
07-09-2008, 12:07 AM
This fall restraint is only the start of a new way of life for some of you. Get used to it. I guess if it were up to you we would still be using wooden hot sticks and the like.
I started out free climbing and heard all the excuses I see here when our company first introduced this fall arrest. The first systems were not perfect and still aren't. But at the end of the day we all want to go home.
All that time and energy wasted on *****in and complainin about the future would be better spent on coming up with a fall arrest system that is practical easy to use. Designed by linemen for linemen.

.....................

Fiberglass Cowboy
07-09-2008, 12:29 AM
Some of us can make up our own minds. We don't need LAME advice like," IT'S COMING,GET USED TO IT,DON'T *****." from someone that never said a ****ed word on here,1 POST,and who the hell are you? Who you work for? Where you from? Wire who? Man up. I would fight the company on it just as the madcowboy is,as i am hoping to get the new shop union steward position. Get used to hearing THAT, instead; RAT F*CKS!!! yeah...

P.S... THIS IS THE UNION ISSUES THREAD,IF YOU ARE A MANAGEMENT PUKE...LIKE SOME YOU F*CKS SOUND,OR IF YOU'RE A RAT F*CK NON-UNION PUSS;HITCH-HIKER;BUTT-SQUEEZE WEARER - OR IF YOU ARE NON-UNION AND YOU CAN'T OR DON'T (OR SCARED TO) CLIMB LIKE ALOT OF YOU LOW PAID RATS ARE,OR ARE JUST NON-UNION PERIOD,STAY THE HELL OFF OF HERE,SCAB. HENCE THE TITLE,"UNION ISSUES". :mad:

Pootnaigle
07-09-2008, 07:10 PM
careful what ya wish for Cowboy a stewarts job can be a real challenge and a thankless effort.......... I know I been there. Just wait til some clown comes to you with his complaint and you bring it up with management while he acts like he has no clue what yer talkin about and neglected to tell you all the facts. If yer gonna do it you better have the smarts to investigate first and the balls to tell your brothers thier complaint has no merit, when thats the case.
I will say the satisfaction of winning a greivance against all of the odds stacked against you is very rewarding.But this dont happen on a regular basis., so be warned

Doggboi
07-09-2008, 07:23 PM
I have heard these "rumors" about fall restraints because cable t.v. sissy boys and telephone douchebags keep falling,.....more stuff.....


I cant speak for all CATV or the contractors they use.. but I know for a fact Comcast is non-union, but does not hook poles, its fiberglass ladder only. And trust me , some of the yucks and women they hire cant even climb those. They are required to tie the ladder off ( doesnt always happen ) and also belt off at the top.

Fiberglass Cowboy
07-09-2008, 08:17 PM
Poot,thanks for the advice. I haven't even been through steward training,but things are crazy at work right now. The company that bought mine has now taken over,and our first day as the new company is Monday. Our local has been in meetings all week with the 3 locals that represent the company that bought us,trying to put together 3 new contracts that will incorporate us into their locals,and hopefully; take good points from our contract with them in the new contracts. I am dealing with my first situation tomorrow. I have gotten most of the facts as far as i know,which i thought i should. Thankyou for the advice. I work around a few, "half cocked" guys,that might be something like what you spoke of. :D

Dog,yes most of them climb ladders around here too,and probably fall off of them. I believe i read an article in the IBEW magazine not too far back about some Comcast workers finally organizing. I recently witnessed an AT&T tech trying to climb a pole in belt and hooks;what a FUNNY yet SCARY sight. Looked like he had no formal training on pole climbing. No wonder why this "mandatory fall protection" is being talked about so much. These cable t.v. workers and their contractors and telephone workers and their contractors,and alot of small "mom and pop company" non-union lineworkers have NEVER been OFFICIALLY TRAINED on how to climb wooden poles. So in my opinion,they need not to rely on a buttsqueeze, INSTEAD THEY SHOULD JUST STAY AWAY FROM BELT AND HOOKS PERIOD. Stick to what they know,bucket trucks and long ladders,and of course,the old "standby"; pole steps. :cool:

Take it easy and stay safe out there,dudes. :cool:

madcowboy33
07-09-2008, 08:42 PM
Poot,thanks for the advice. I haven't even been through steward training,but things are crazy at work right now. The company that bought mine has now taken over,and our first day as the new company is Monday. Our local has been in meetings all week with the 3 locals that represent the company that bought us,trying to put together 3 new contracts that will incorporate us into their locals,and hopefully; take good points from our contract with them in the new contracts. I am dealing with my first situation tomorrow. I have gotten most of the facts as far as i know,which i thought i should. Thankyou for the advice. I work around a few, "half cocked" guys,that might be something like what you spoke of. :D

Dog,yes most of them climb ladders around here too,and probably fall off of them. I believe i read an article in the IBEW magazine not too far back about some Comcast workers finally organizing. I recently witnessed an AT&T tech trying to climb a pole in belt and hooks;what a FUNNY yet SCARY sight. Looked like he had no formal training on pole climbing. No wonder why this "mandatory fall protection" is being talked about so much. These cable t.v. workers and their contractors and telephone workers and their contractors,and alot of small "mom and pop company" non-union lineworkers have NEVER been OFFICIALLY TRAINED on how to climb wooden poles. So in my opinion,they need not to rely on a buttsqueeze, INSTEAD THEY SHOULD JUST STAY AWAY FROM BELT AND HOOKS PERIOD. Stick to what they know,bucket trucks and long ladders,and of course,the old "standby"; pole steps. :cool:

Take it easy and stay safe out there,dudes. :cool:

So you took the steward job, well thanks for stepping up, I hope you like to fight cause you will be fighting with your own brothers as much as management, I took over about 6 months ago, its a really bad time right now, we get no steward training and we have many problems. The position is really stressful and will probably change you, you have to be confrontational and an a-hole. get these books, (the legal rights of union stewards) and ( the complete guide to being steward) they are pretty helpful. Wish there was a steward forum?

wirewalker
07-09-2008, 10:31 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some of us can make up our own minds. We don't need LAME advice like," IT'S COMING,GET USED TO IT,DON'T *****." from someone that never said a ****ed word on here,1 POST,and who the hell are you? Who you work for? Where you from? Wire who? Man up. I would fight the company on it just as the madcowboy is,as i am hoping to get the new shop union steward position. Get used to hearing THAT, instead; RAT F*CKS!!! yeah...

P.S... THIS IS THE UNION ISSUES THREAD,IF YOU ARE A MANAGEMENT PUKE...LIKE SOME YOU F*CKS SOUND,OR IF YOU'RE A RAT F*CK NON-UNION PUSS;HITCH-HIKER;BUTT-SQUEEZE WEARER - OR IF YOU ARE NON-UNION AND YOU CAN'T OR DON'T (OR SCARED TO) CLIMB LIKE ALOT OF YOU LOW PAID RATS ARE,OR ARE JUST NON-UNION PERIOD,STAY THE HELL OFF OF HERE,SCAB. HENCE THE TITLE,"UNION ISSUES
Lineman Forums at www.powerlineman.com are open forums for the free exchange of ideas and opinions for anyone using them.

Well fibre you expressed yourself very well but can you get along with the rest of the children? I don't know what kind of union your into but its nothing like ours. How do you work safe everyday with an attitude like that dogging you everyday.You talk about unions and safety. your b.s.ing.
By the way thank you for acknowledging my first post.

Fiberglass Cowboy
07-11-2008, 10:23 PM
I was in a bad mood that night. I am hearing lots of "rumors" about osha right now,i don't know what to believe and what not to believe.The bucksqueeze is one that i hope i never see in my career. I think ultimately it will lead to less talented people being able to enter our trade. If you use it and like it,hey,that's cool. I'm just sayin' it's not for me... :cool:

Fiberglass Cowboy
07-11-2008, 10:32 PM
:mad: cowboy 33 ... Thanks for the help. Seems like everything you said applies to me. I just got this position 3 days ago,and i have already had 6 meetings in 2 days. 5 of them with my supervisor and 1 with the union; all over issues going on right now. Seems like my supervisor is already trying to "buck up" to me. I think i'll be filing between 1-4 greivances for people within the next 2 weeks, all over legitamite issues. Plus i want the official "Union Steward training", and hopefully i'll be able to get ahold of those books. Got another union meeting Tuesday night, hopefully find out more then.... you know how it goes... :cool:

NightHawk
08-07-2008, 11:08 AM
Since the company I work for instituted the c**ksqueeze, we have had 2 accidents because of it.

1.) lineman was installing a high line crossarm, when he took hold of the crossarm to lay it across his belt it hit the adjustment buckle causing him to fall. Luckily he hadn't removed the hand line from the crossarm and was able to catch himself

2) lineman put the handline around the pole just above the buck squeeze belt, when load was applied to the handline the pully hit the bucksqueeze adjustment cinch causing the man to fall and hurt his back

(imo) The only way to have 100% fall protection is by not climbing.other wise it comes down quality training and looking out for yourself.

turner2
09-18-2008, 05:56 PM
So the guy did not fall while installing the arm? Could a crossarm knock you off the pole with a standard pole strap? Yes, anything is possible especially in this business. Why would you install a handline block at waist level? We were taught to place the block as high as possible to avoid reaching down for the material. The groundman was also taught to look up before raising the load. This was a back up to the lineman who placed the block in an un-safe position. Hell, you could pull a guys feet right out of the pole--it is called head out of ass. We have been in the Bucksqueeze for sometime now and have had no serious accidents. Your right nothing is 100%, but the closer to 100 the better.
To you guys calling your brothers out for tryng to work safe remember the old days. The old timers were so much tougher than any of us we do not have the right to judge anyone. I remember seeing old timers working with a leg wrapped around the instead of a pole strap. So in that case we are all weak. How about that bucket truck? I bet everyone whining about the industry changing climbs their ass right into the bucket.
We are grown men bashing one another for choosing to work safe. If the company says use the strap use it, drag ass or otherwise quite your **** whining.

HEAVY DUTY
10-11-2008, 07:04 PM
My Company Makes Us Use The Buck Squeeze. It Slows Me Down But I Get Paid By The Hour. Do What You Got To Do And Deal With It.

Bull Dog
10-11-2008, 09:34 PM
Falling off a pole has never been a big hazzard in this business. Yes it happens so do accidents with trucks. Should we out law moving vehicles and cary our equipment on horse back? The whole butt squeeze is a joke and I'm old and still climb with out a butt sqeeze not problem what so ever. The management pukes are turning this into a dam joke. More good would come if you just keep your hooks sharp.

Doggboi
10-11-2008, 10:55 PM
Falling off a pole has never been a big hazzard in this business. .

Seriously?

Just this year we lost a guy that wasnt even on the pole.. because the guy on the pole came loose and fell on his journeyman... no one will say it , but the word is that the J-man tried to break his fall.. if guys didnt come off a pole on a regular basis , do you think that osha would have an argument?

I said it before and I will say it again , come up with a viable argument.. beat these guys at their own game... Osha and management and the people that make these devices are claiming it saves time off, and lives.. what is your argument? 'We didnt do it that way when I was coming up' doesnt work. Give the Apprentices and the ol' timers a leg up...

You have more apprentices and wanna be's than ever .. what are you going to do to make them 'look' better to insurance and safety boards

HEAVY DUTY
10-11-2008, 11:16 PM
bulldog

hope it never happens, but the day you cut out and fall 40 or 50 0r ever how many feet onto a concrete sidewalk you will wish that you had one. you may have never cut out but its like any other acccident....it only takes 1 time...........ask my father-in-law--------he has been in a wheelchair for over 20 years and only fell 8 feet...

johnbellamy
10-26-2008, 01:25 AM
....................

bones
10-26-2008, 11:25 AM
Great, now we're going to have a bunch of pussies coming up through the ranks. Someone had to say it. Part of becoming a lineman is overcoming one's own innate fears. One who can overcome the obvious danger of falling and dieing most likely can keep the cool head needed for when SHTF in the primary zone.

Who do you want coving your back? Someone who has actually had lead flying over their head or a paintballer.

johnbellamy
10-26-2008, 11:59 AM
[QUOTE=SBatts;49420]No I stood my ground and got fired over a hard hat. Once I quit on a double time Sunday over useing safetys, and the GF was a friend of mine.
I was the one at the front of the line doing the yelling and turned around for support and everyone is looking at the ground not saying sh!t.

So stand your ground and find out if the company will roll over for one dumba$$.



...............

Bull Dog
10-26-2008, 02:29 PM
I'm a old man and I have no problem what so ever going up a pole with out a safey system that from what I have heard can cause accidents. Keep your hooks sharp use your belt if you must but why turn these men into scared little girls. These are men. Ok fine its comming and nothing can be done. Thats the day we should find another way to make a living as far as I'm concerned. Electricians, carpenters, labors and others get paid real good. They don't worry about falling off a pole. Seems strange the young guys want the thing and the older guys think there nuts. Yes people fall of poles. We get electricuted and burned too. Let us make a rule that everyting must be killed and grounded to work on! How about people getting killed on the way home after 44 hours on the job. lets make a rule the company has to drive us home. How about that one? Linemen do die falling asleep behind the wheel you know. Who knows how far we can go. The creativity of the people who think they know better has no end. Insurance companys managment pukes will be the end of the utility industry.

woodwalker4life
10-27-2008, 06:19 PM
ive heard its the companys pushing it not osha

turner2
10-30-2008, 12:38 AM
Bellamy you are definetly the dumbest individual posting on any lineman site. I like to read the sites for the beneficial info and get **** tired of whiny little *****es like you thinking your so ####ing tough. Wow look I can cuss and act like a blanking idiot just like you.

johnbellamy
10-30-2008, 12:53 AM
Bellamy you are definetly the dumbest individual posting on any lineman site. I like to read the sites for the beneficial info and get **** tired of whiny little *****es like you thinking your so ####ing tough. Wow look I can cuss and act like a blanking idiot just like you.





................

PA BEN
10-30-2008, 09:51 AM
This isn't a trade for the weak:cool: Nut-up and get-er-done:cool:
What makes a good climber? "THE FEAR OF FALLING

harley
10-30-2008, 10:18 AM
What's a crumpet?

johnbellamy
10-30-2008, 11:35 AM
What's a crumpet?





....................

IronLine
10-31-2008, 06:55 AM
Hahahahahahaha (cough) Hahahahaha:D

RDawgs
12-07-2008, 12:17 PM
to Turner2 After reading your post you sound like the Rosie O'Donnell of Lineman!!!! Have a good day! WHINER!:)

wtdoor67
12-09-2008, 08:19 AM
Every aerial structure shall have an alternate structure erected near it. Each of these structures shall have rigging attached to it that will allow each lineperson to attach to it in addition to the structure being worked. In case of a bucket failure or an inadvertent fall then the primary rigging would break away leaving the worker suspended safely from the alternate structure.

Each alternate structure would have an alternate, alternate structure next to it in case of failure of the primary alternate structure. Each alternate, alternate structure would have an alternate, alternate, alternate structure in case of failure of the alternate , alternate structure and so on.

WAIT, WAIT OSHA. It's a joke, a joke. NO, NO, I wasn't being serious, I was just being, oh hell go ahead, I don't care. While you're at it go ahead and bring out the rubber suit also. I know you want to.

However I do have a suggestion for this system. It would be called the BELLAMY SYSTEM.

Wait a minute. Had another thought. All lines shall be built in quadruple modes. With the proper breakers etc. all any customer will ever experience is a brief blink. With the errant line then de-energized it can be repaired while grounded and checked dead by workers in rubber suits. Each quadruple circuit shall have an alternate quadruple circuit for a backup and each alternate quadruple circuit will have an alternate, alternate quadruple circuit for backup. With a system such as this the electrocution hazard will be greatly reduced. The engineer who designs this will become world renown right up there with Tesla.

HOLD ON, HOLD ON! It's another joke. YOU DO? Well if you insist. I would insist you call this the BATTS SYSTEM.

Sure no trouble at all. Glad to help out.

Bull Dog
12-09-2008, 07:18 PM
Man sometimes you guys are funny. By accident.

High Lineman
12-09-2008, 08:38 PM
If you guys are not on square transmission poles you dont know the down fall of the belt. It is pretty simple to use on 40 foot poles

hobbyknocker
12-09-2008, 10:20 PM
Yeah, Have fun rotating around an E-Lam pole with that P.O.S.