Endless War

[tolex42]

The endless war continues. Nine more dead American soldiers this weekend. 99 so far in the month of April.

We have not gained more security for ourselves or liberty for the Iraqis. All we have gained is 99 more dead soldiers, 99 more grieving families, more widows and children without mothers or fathers.

If you read my previous posts you know my politics. But let's put politics aside for now and let us all of us work for some sort of solution to end this endless war.

This weekend I heard people talk about the football draft, golf, fishing, spring turkey hunting, planting flowers, mowing the lawn, etc. but no one talks about the war because it is too unpleasant of a topic. Americans, we need to start a dialogue about the American soldiers that are dieing every day in Iraq. When you go to work tomorrow start a conversation with your fellow crew members about the war. Talk to your family about it over the dinner table, in the coffee shop to other customers, where ever and whenever you come in contact with people, bring up the subject.

American citizens must get involved and find a way to end the endless war! Set your politics aside, what ever they may be and let us work together to find a way to end the war that is costing so many American lives.

[LostArt]

Lex, I don't talk too much about the war here, it doesn't mean I am not faced with it everyday. I do talk to military recruiters off and on, I send letters to former students who are now in our military forces and some that are over seas. Then there is my Marine son-in-law and we talk off and on about it. I'll even call him up and discuss some things.

It's true I share a good part of my life here on this board, but there is also a very large part that I don't. Many do post here about the war and sometimes I "jump" in and sometimes I don't. Doesn't mean I don't care, it just means I am caring in another way through my life.

JFYI, I don't even visit or read threads about those linemen that are hurt or killed on the job. I hope I don't sound like a callous person or wife, but I just can't go there. I've had some close calls, it's been years ago, but I really don't want to relive them through another's eyes. I sincerely hope you ALL work safe and that includes my husband. There are so many senseless deaths these days. We are surrounded by them.

But in response to your post, I think we all face it sometime during the day and we are talking about it and many are doing their part in one way or another. We just don't see it, you and I. But, I do think your post is an IMPORTANT reminder. Thank you.

[tolex42]

LostArt, Thank you for you sincere response

[tolex42]

The endless war continues. Nine more dead American soldiers this weekend. 99 so far in the month of April.

We have not gained more security for ourselves or liberty for the Iraqis. All we have gained is 99 more dead soldiers, 99 more grieving families, more widows and children without mothers or fathers.

If you read my previous posts you know my politics. But let's put politics aside for now and let us all of us work for some sort of solution to end this endless war.

This weekend I heard people talk about the football draft, golf, fishing, spring turkey hunting, planting flowers, mowing the lawn, etc. but no one talks about the war because it is too unpleasant of a topic. Americans, we need to start a dialogue about the American soldiers that are dieing every day in Iraq. When you go to work tomorrow start a conversation with your fellow crew members about the war. Talk to your family about it over the dinner table, in the coffee shop to other customers, where ever and whenever you come in contact with people, bring up the subject.

American citizens must get involved and find a way to end the endless war! Set your politics aside, what ever they may be and let us work together to find a way to end the war that is costing so many American lives.

Again nine more American service men killed this weekend (5/5/07, 5/6/07), and no one seems to notice. Of course it's tragic when one of our brothers is lost on the job. But isn't it 100 more times tragic when we lost over 100 service men and women in Iraq in April?

Why do we hear so little about them? What were there names? Where did they live? Did they have families? How did they die?

On TV this weekend we saw the Queen, Bush, the Kentucky derby, etc. but so little about the casualties.

[tolex42]

Our KS Nation Guard is out in force this weekend, due to the Greensburg Tornado. The governor was on TV telling of the vehicle (air, ground, and heavy equipment) shortage and troop shortage due to our forced commitment in Iraq. There is a Patriot Guard Commitment for a fallen Kansas Soldier this week in Iraq.

This pissed Bush off to the point that when he toured Kansas yestreday he wouldn't let the Governor join in a photo op.

Next time he'll probably lay on the floor, kick his feet and cry.

[tolex42]

Don't forget stevie.....
mr. clinton cut 500,000 personel out of our Military. Remember that? No, probably not.

"Forced" commitment in Iraq? Yeah, Life in the national guard, and the Active military, gets sorta, "pressed".....when our Military is gutted.

And now we don't have enough National Guard to help in Kansas. Cause of the "War" of course.....sad. And of course, that's Bush's Fault....

So? Is America's Military been gutted enough by the democrats that now, in a time of War, and national need, we don't have enough American military and national guard to adiquately defend and help in America?

Is THAT why democrats want to reinstate the Draft? Thank Clinton for the state of our military today.

Sorry not all of your Kansas Guard are home. They have to take up the slack of the half million troops slick willie cut out our National Military Defense.

Swamprat, this is typical right-wing, conservative Republican B.S.. Bush has been president for six years and it is time he stands up and takes responsibility for all his stupid mistakes. All through the Clinton administration years, when we had a fantastic economy, our treasury had a surplus and this country was under control, the conservatives said that was because of the groundwork that Bush the first laid down. Now during the administration of Bush, the idiot, everything that has gone wrong was because of the groundwork Clinton laid down. You can't have it both ways.

It's admirable to support your beliefs and ideals but at some point you have to face reality that this president has our country in real trouble. Swamprat, in all honesty you cannot deny that, can you.

[Orgnizdlbr]

Mission Accomplished day 1495......

[tolex42]

Naw man.
"Our country is in real trouble."?

Naw...
Mayby from a pacifast point of view.

I'm a Right leaning Republican.
I'm real pissed off with my party right now. We had control of the Presidency, the House AND the Senate. And we stepped on our own ****.
Didn't do a Fu#$in thing, with a complete mandate of the American people. Yup. The Republican party...completely, Fuc$ed up. That's why we lost control of BOTH... the house and senate.

The war on Terriorism, I truly believe in, and I believe,....it's basis is now, in Iraq.

We, as mear..."citizens" of this great United States of America, really ain't got a friggin Clue, about the decisions that are made, hour by hour in the Oval office to defend and protect the United States of America, a country of 370+ million people.

We're too busy watchin, Grays Anatomy, or,... Are you smarter than a 5th grader....................:cool:

If America's, "warm and happy", in their "day to day" life......"All's good".:p

It's only when something like 9-11 happens. that we come together....as Americans.

Aside from that....
It's back to Greys Anatomy....

"Did you Tevo that babe?"

:D


Swamprat..... this is scary but this old lefty agrees with you on some of these points......

Your party did have a mandate and they had control and they did blow it. The Republican party lost sight of what they stand for, they abandoned the Ronald Reagan Republican Party and allowed themselves to be taken hostage by George Bush and Karl Rove.

The neoconservatives moved 180° from the Ronald Reagan right. Reagan believed in smaller government, less taxes and a reduced deficit. Where do we stand on those issues today, government is bigger than ever and the deficit is soaring out of sight. Ronald Reagan did not believe in "nation building" and even George Bush, during the 2000 campaign, was critical of the Clinton administration's alleged nation building in Kosovo. And that is exactly what we are doing in Iraq..... nation building....at the cost of 100s of billions of dollars and thousands of lives.

For decades one of the primary issues of Republican Party has been abortion. They blew that big-time, or did they. They had the House, they had the Senate, they had the Supreme Court and they had the Presidency. They easily could have passed legislation to outlaw abortion, they could've overruled Roe vs Wade, but they didn't. Why not? Because abortion along with guns and school prayer are emotional issues that distract us from the real things that are happening in this world and in this government that they want to keep behind the scenes.

Let me make just one but a very important exmple. Almost our entire manufacturing base has left this country for China. We don't make many products here any more and very soon we will not have anyone left who knows how to make things but we are more concerned about Anna Nicole Smith, American Idol and sporting events.

George Bush not only stold the presidency for the Democrats but he stold it from the Republicans too.

[dirtywater07]

The death of one man is a tragedy. The death of millions is a statistic.
Joseph Stalin

Sad but true........and that is all it will be. I remember the first days of the war and every soldier that first died was talked about...now it's just a bi-line for newscasters..ohh yeah and 14 more soldiers died this weekend.....its an F-up world we live in. Now we find out more about cover up's like tillman's death who really died of friendly fire which I hate that word ain't nothing friendly about it.....besides that you guys really gotta stop your republican/democrat biiatching. If you really wanna do something run for office as an independent and say F the democrats and republicans they are not doing anything for the American nowadays...we work harder,make less money,and have less rights..

[tolex42]

I've seen some of the "bi-lines" from WWII, in some of the newspapers my day had saved.

The media back then, was Pro America. "WIN the WAR!!" The media "directs" America's thinking. It did back in WWII, and it does now.

Only difference is....Now, The media counts daily, American dead, with NO coverage on "progress" or good news by our troops. NONE what so ever. It's all negative.

If WWII was covered by the media back then, as the media covers the Iraq war today.....

We'd be speakin German right now.

Whatever ya see on your "6 o'clock news", and the way it's presented to America,....the american public just spoons it up,... every night. Truth.

When the "Truth" is,....
It's the bias opinions of the Liberal media, and the way they manipulate the stories they "feed" to america.

How come we never see any of the stories of the Linemen that are workin over in Iraq that have completely rebuilt the electric grid of Iraq?

Cause....
they're on contract to Halliburton. And....Halliburton is a *******, money grubbing company that liberals hate. So? No fuc&in story there.

Well guess what. There IS a story. The Liberal american media, just won't take the time to tell ya about it, cause it's good news, and don't involve dead american soldiers. Dead soldiers are "News". Progress, that those soldiers gave their life for....just ain't news...

Dead American soldiers,....now THAT'S NEWS.
Like I said...
Same coverage in WWII?

We'd be speakin German.

Sorry Dirty....

"Voting", is another thing in America that don't mean **** no more. It's all "Played out" and directed by the "media" as they want america to "see" it.

America votes by what the "TUBE" Tells em....cause the "TUBE" is the Truth.

And that's the Truth man, believe it or not.
"Sieg Heil".


Swamprat, I can't let this one go by without responding.

Just because one is against this war does not mean you are not "Pro American". I am against this terrible, ill-conceived war and I consider myself to be as Pro American as anyone. I have never missed an opportunity speak up for freedom, liberty, civil rights and justice for Americans and also the rest of the people of this world.

People were saying the same thing about the media during the Vietnam War. Don't show this, don't show that. The American public should not be told this and that. When the American public got all the truth they demanded that war end also.

Time and history has shown the press cannot and should not be stifled. Calling it left-wing, calling it liberal what ever names you may, the press must be allowed to report what they see and how they see it. Americans are not stupid. They know not everything in the media is true and they know not everything in the media is false.

As I said in a previous post Swamprat I don't disagree with everything you say. You're right about voting. Americans don't take the time or the effort to learn about candidates. They seldom know more than what they've seen on TV commercials about a candidate. Hardly ever do they listen to the debates and digest the questions and responses between the candidates. Americans are too busy, too distracted or what ever to get out and vote. Today was primary day in many states. In my state, like most others the number of people who bothered to go out and vote is embarrassingly small.

I'm getting off the point here but I believe that Election Day should be on a Saturday, not on a workday when it is difficult for many people to get the polls. I also believe in American in this electronic age we should be able to vote online.

["little beaver"]

"..........Maby when the next 9-11 happens here in America, ya might start to get a clue."

It's just a matter a time.........it's gonna happen!!!

[PA BEN]

So, what if we didn’t go into Iraq. And we are fighting the same type of war now in Afghanistan? But, you have Iraq and Iran funding the war? Do we cut and run? It doesn’t matter why we went into Iraq now, what matters now is, that we are fighting the terrorists there and not here. I know it’s hard to lose our kids over there, but the last time I looked the military is all volunteer. And still with the war on they still get volunteers. I know as a parent it would be hard on me and my wife to have my Child in the military, but when my kid is 18 I have to let them make up there own mind. Just like I did when I was 18. I joined the military and you know what? I knew that there was a chance I was going to war.
Remember 911. This is a war on the terrorists. Support our troops. Don’t stand up and say we have lost when our boys and girls are in harms way. If the democrats were voted in to stop the war, is cut and run the way to do it? Is giving the terrorists the time when we will retreat a good idea? I say again remember 911 and what it felt like when those *******s came to my Country and killed my fellow Americans!!! Do you think Americans felt the same way after the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor?
I see the hatred for Bush clouding the real reason we are fighting the terrorists:mad:

[tolex42]

So, what if we didn’t go into Iraq. And we are fighting the same type of war now in Afghanistan? But, you have Iraq and Iran funding the war? Do we cut and run? It doesn’t matter why we went into Iraq now, what matters now is, that we are fighting the terrorists there and not here. I know it’s hard to lose our kids over there, but the last time I looked the military is all volunteer. And still with the war on they still get volunteers. I know as a parent it would be hard on me and my wife to have my Child in the military, but when my kid is 18 I have to let them make up there own mind. Just like I did when I was 18. I joined the military and you know what? I knew that there was a chance I was going to war.
Remember 911. This is a war on the terrorists. Support our troops. Don’t stand up and say we have lost when our boys and girls are in harms way. If the democrats were voted in to stop the war, is cut and run the way to do it? Is giving the terrorists the time when we will retreat a good idea? I say again remember 911 and what it felt like when these *******s came to my Country and killed my fellow Americans!!! Do you think Americans felt the same way after the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor?
I see the hatred for Bush clouding the real reason we are fighting the terrorists:mad:

PA Ben, you make some very interesting well-thought-out remarks here. I agree with most of what you're saying, but not everything. First there is no question that we were justified in going to war in Afghanistan. That's where the terrorists were and that's where they were being trained.

Do we "cut and run", no. But we have to find an exit strategy. We cannot remain at war there for another 5 or 10 years. We certainly are fighting terrorists in Iraq now, the vast majority of which were created after we invaded Iraq. Nevertheless the terrorists now and for a long time to come will remain a serious threat to the United States.

I have the greatest respect for our volunteer military who chose to defend our country. However I, and I'm sure everyone reading these pages agree we cannot continue with over 100 of them being killed each month. I support our troops and I've never met someone who doesn't. What greater support than in striving to have them all come home, alive.

My solution for the mess over there, for what it's worth is that a multinational military force must be created with soldiers from other Muslim countries. The peacekeeping force should consist of troops from Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, Turkey, Algeria and Morocco, etc.. Muslims controlling Muslims seems to me would work much better than having the people in Iraq accept control by our or European forces. The moderate Muslim countries in the middle east must understand that the Iraq/Iran situation is a tinderbox ready to ignite and consume the entire area. Don't you think that could work?

[tolex42]

Different war my friend, different time. But I get your drift. Time will tell.
Vietnam didn't have Nukes, and chemical weapons, and the Hate of America, that the war on terriorism is today.

Vietnam, was a "political" power play, by a democrat president who had President Dim....assinated in the back of a van. It was a..."war of convienience". A "Media" war, for political reasons. Talk about havin NO business gettin into that war! It was a war to "stand up to communist china". To show we had the "fortitude" to fight. There's a war that Never should have happend. Instituded by a democrat president....just cause...

We could have turned vietnam into a friggin parking lot, aslphated it and built wallmarts. But no....
Our "leaders" wouldn't bomb north vietnam. No wonder the "Wall" in washington is Black. It's a political stain, on what an American president did to America....for nothing.

This war my man, as "ill-conceived" as you may think it is, in NOT a "war of convienience". These enemys will Nuke our ass in a New York minute if they have the chance.

This is NOT vietman.

You can be all "Pro Amrerican" and **** all ya want. If ya don't understand, and remember 9-11, you don't "get" this war sir. And it ain't gonna be won by "talkin". AND....democrat or Republican president...ain't a hell of alot gonna change. These *******s are out to kill America. Our people, and our economy.

Maby when the next 9-11 happens here in America, ya might start to get a clue.

Maby then, you can better understand this "Terrible, ill-conceived war."

Was it Churchill who said "If you do not learn from history, you are destined to repeat it"

[tolex42]

Absolutely, positively not. 2 reasons.

The countrys you mentioned don't have armys with enough backbone to even think about being a "peace keeping force". Second, and most important, The Sunni and Shia divisions of islam hate eachother almost as much as they hate the west.

So, how would you suggest it be ended?

[PA BEN]

The big problem with Iraq is the different Muslim Sects. You might as will call it a form of racism. Do you hear much from the Kurds in the north? No, it’s because the Kurds police them selves. Don’t F….. with the Kurds. So divide Iraq up into States. Each State has it’s own people [ie; Sect], own State Government that answers to the lets call it the Iraqi Government, witch is made up of leaders from each State, [ie; Sect]. :cool:

[tolex42]

Unfortunately, after 9-11, which was America's REAL "wakeup call" from Islam...
It's not going to end, anytime soon.
So,...If you want to bring the troops home, tell em to keep their bags packed.

Sad but true. It's real sad, alot of America don't get that though. So caught up in "hate Bush" politics. "American war mongers, Nation builders."

It ain't that at all. It's Protecting America. Unfortunately, after 9-11, that's "Boots on the Ground, and Americans dying." Like I said. This ain't Vietnam. 9-11 started this, and was a Wake up call. Big time.

Radical Islam had "rang the doorbell" quite a number of times before....
Beriut, the Marine Barracks, The USS Cole, Kobar towers....just to name a few.

America didn't answer the door. Well...9-11, we answered the door.
Freedom, our way of life, and the protection of America...isn't free.

American troops are going to die, and there's going to be more. That's called War.

Please try to "Get it", and support it. It will be Foreign policy, Democrat or Republican... for the rest of our lives.

I was outside my house in Dhahran, walking my dog, when I heard and felt the concussion from Kobar towers, 2 miles away.

Yeah....I "get it"....

You did not answer the question, HOW DO YOU THINK WE CAN GET OUT OF IRAQ?

[PA BEN]

So what about me:o

[tolex42]

We're not getting out of Iraq anytime soon. AND, if we do, the country will completely go to civil war, with Iran the instigator, and then, either we just sit back and watch, or we go back in. Do you want to "get out" of Afganistan too? It's not just about "getting out".

I wonder if people in America were asking when we were going to "get out" of Europe and the Pacific during WWII.

And also so sir, there is no answer that will surfice for you to your question. Unless it's the answer you want. And the answer you want is NOW.

A "timetable" can't be placed on your question. Which is what the democrats want to do. A timetable will just make the insurgants and terriorists...."sit back and wait", knowing America has once again, placed a "limit" on their resolve.




Apparently you are not reading my previous post, or yours either. I said previously I agree with the reason we are in Afghanistan. The other day when I made a correlation between the press coverge in Iraq and during the Vietnam era, you said "different war my friend, a different time." But now you reference WW II. Since you brought up WW II let me make a comment. Yes, everyday Americans were very concerned about the war on both fronts. But they saw we were winning and they knew that Presidents Roosevelt and Truman and Eisenhower, MacArthur and Halsey had legitimate strategies and plans to advance the war and obtained victory. Incidentally the war in Iraq has been going on longer the entire WW II.

I asked a question HOW DO THINK YOU WE CAN GET OUT OF IRAQ? It wasn't to criticize or condem anyone. It was to exchange ideas and stimulate conversation. It was not a yes or no question or a test of ones ideology I'm only asking people's opinion on what they feel our exit strategy should be. I did not ask for a timetable. Us Democrats and many Republicans would just like to see a plan.

I asked you twice and you still haven't answered the question, so you must be just like George Bush, you have no idea how we can get out of Iraq, do you.

[tolex42]

Apparently, you can't understand written English.
I said....

"We're Not getting out of Iraq" anytime soon. And there is no feasible plan to.
Unless you count "Tuck your tail, and come home" as a Plan.

I don't need a friggin "Plan" to tuck tail and come home because people like you want a "Plan" and a "timetable" to "END" the war.

Once again...people like you don't understand or WANT to understand, the significance of this "War". You want it all "Wrapped up in a package with a fuc%in pink bow that says "We won". Or, in your case....Lost.

Ain't gonna happen.
Different type of war man. You still don't get that either.

So....
Tell me YOUR..."Plan" or Idea for "Getting out of this war".

I've told you mine. There AIN"T one.

Cause this war is, non conventional. It ain't, tanks and planes and troops, with any Final conclusion.
It's ongoing, and will be, for a long time.

Wrap your liberal ass around that, and tell me....
"Your PLAN" for getting Out of Iraq, and how you'll make all "Lovie dovie" with Iran and the factions of Islam in this "Middle East" stratigic confrontation. I'm all fuc%in ears.

Don't play coy with me, about not "answerin your question".

Like I also said. "There's only one answer. Yours".

Let's hear Your ideas. You've heard mine, you just don't like em.

How about tryin to figure out a way to help WIN, and accomplish what we are trying to do in Iraq, rather than "Give Up" after 6 years.

You sound like CP. You don't like my answer, you tell me I didn't answer. Then ya ask your question again.

I've already figured out....You don't get ****, but your own opinion.

So,...What's YOUR Idea man? On "How to GET OUT of Iraq." :cool:

Apparently you have a short attention span or poor reading comprehension. I posted a solution 15/16 and you responded to it on 5/16.

I never said tuck your tail or cut and run. They are catch phrases introduced by Karl Rove to distract people from the real issues and you fell for it.

The solution I've posted may work or it may not. When I hear you say that you "There AIN"T one" I have to assume that you're OK with 100 soldiers losing their lives each month with hundreds more wounded and crippled. I have to assume you continue to have faith in George Bush's failed policy. The invasion of Iraq will go down in history as the worst political blunder ever made by a United States President.

And I also suggest you switch to decaf.

[CenterPointEX]

Islamic Fascism , The middle east is under siege by Islamic Fascism. Their mantra is "Death to America".

[dbrown20]

THE EARTH IS NEAR! WE ARE ALL DOOMED! BEND OVER AND KISS YOUR ASS GOODBY! SINNERS GET READY FOR THE JUDGEMENT DAY!

Meanwhile the Democrats are praying that Rudy is the Republican candidate and the Republicans are praying that Hillary is the Democratic candidate.

I think I saw the Devil and Elvis sharing a beer with Bin Laden the other day at a local bar. As I left they were singing. "So long, it's been good to know you."

[LostArt]

THE EARTH IS NEAR! WE ARE ALL DOOMED! BEND OVER AND KISS YOUR ASS GOODBY! SINNERS GET READY FOR THE JUDGEMENT DAY!

Meanwhile the Democrats are praying that Rudy is the Republican candidate and the Republicans are praying that Hillary is the Democratic candidate.

I think I saw the Devil and Elvis sharing a beer with Bin Laden the other day at a local bar. As I left they were singing. "So long, it's been good to know you."

OMG!!! Can I laugh at this????? Please........forgive me...........but I thought this was pretty funny! :p


Last edited by dbrown20 : Today at 06:20 PM. Reason: typo. Tracy, Tracey is it getting smokey down there.

Yes it was pretty smokey this morning Danny. But, I'm okay buddy. Thus so far......can I still laugh at this???????

[CenterPointEX]

Like and Ostrich, one could put their head in the sand and laugh at the folks who are hollering fire...
"What fire says the Ostrich? I don't see no fire... Stupid paridnoid naysayer!"

..... It is a little more serious than that DBrown... making light of Islamic Facism will not make it go away... They do have an agenda and America is not a part of it. They are sitting on a bucket of black gold with which they fund their little party. I grant you that my Biblical interlude is stuff that must be understood by faith. But the Facist Muslims are for real... They are taking out American infrastructure as we speak, they are now and will continue to kill and maime americans. No, we are not leaving the middle east... Our presence there will not bring peace... There is no peace with Islam... When their balls get big enough, they will join full force in a suicidal attack. When they get a Nuke, they will lob it at us. Think about the mentality if you will of folks who strap bombs to thier backs and go out and kill indescriminatly. At least America kills its children in the back room of a doctors office and not out in public... That makes us more civilized?

[CenterPointEX]

Islamic Fascism , The middle east is under siege by Islamic Fascism. Their mantra is "Death to America". We are dealing with an enemy who's highest goal in life is to take out as many infidels as possible in an act of suicide. How do we deal logically with this kind of Ideology? There is no reasoning with Insanity. When you come across a Charles Manson, your only recourse is to eliminate him or separate him from society. Islamic Fascism is just such an animal. When Osama set off the truck bomb in the WTC. I said to myself... Bin Ladin is gonna be pissed about the result... Then he is gonna look for a bigger bomb... Well you know the rest of the Story... But here is the deal... Islamic Fascism is about one thing... Death to Israel, Death to America, One World government under Islamic Rule. They will stop at no border, they will stop at no means... They will.... mark my word... it is not if but when.... they will get their hands on a Nuclear Device... and when they do get their hands on a nuke... We WILL Lose An American City... We can not stamp out Islam... The Koran is not a bout peace... The Satanic Verses are about one thing and one thing only... Going to Hell and taking as many folks along as possible... They are prodigy's of their father the Devil. This is a War that will not end until the coming of Jesus Christ. The current question is not "When will we bring the troops home?" The question is, "On what soil will our troops fight Islamic Fascism? Will we fight this war on the sands of the middle east or in the Heart of America?" Are we in the Last Days?... It seems to be the case... millions of Sheittes are coming to faith is Jesus Christ not because some one told them submit to Christ of Die... oh contrar... They come in droves though they are told if they convert to Christianity, they will die... Your time is Short Swamp... I suggest you figure it out... quickly...

Islamic Fascism comes to the negotiating table for one purpose only... to gain time to find a bigger stick to club us with... Just like Bin Ladin bought time from Clinton to find a bigger bomb. Bush's policy was to take the War to its source... The Hot Bed of Islams training ground... Its hard to be on the offensive when you are Defense. If we walk a way and leave the trainging gounds unfettered... They will regroup... Then Charge... They give no quarter Tolex... for them it's all or nothing. We have no choice but to sit on them. We will never leave the middle east... That is a fact of life... get used to it. Islam will never back down. They are marching straight to Armageddon. They have no heart for peace... Satan knows the end result... He is pissed...

[dbrown20]

think anyone knows a good answer to this war. However it seems to be evident that the current methods are not working. We must try something else.

It reminds me of what my dad said about the great depression. He said no-one blamed Herbert Hoover for the depression. It was that he refused to make the govt. a part of it. People were starving, and his solution was stay the course and it will work itself out. Sound familiar?

He said FDR did many things to try and help. Many of them didn't work but he would then again try something else. My widowed grandmother was greatly helped when an uncle of mine was allowed to go to a CCC camp and work for a small wage. What he sent home monthly put food on the table. Many people made fun of the WPA. However I still see structures standing that are over 75 years old and are still being used. I noticed a school building yesterday that was stamped WPA 1931. The small wage the many unemployed were able to make put food on the table.

Using a volunteer force for the military will result in a very small minority fighting our wars. Much like Vietnam, where mostly blacks and poor whites wound up doing the fighting. LBJ was an idiot to listen to McNamara and his ilk much like GW is an idiot to listen to people like Wolfowitz and Cheney. We never learn. Change must happen.

As far as Iraq. I believe North Korea poses a bigger threat than Iraq. Red China will take over the world someday. They will squash the Islamic's like so many bugs. dbrown20

[CenterPointEX]

Revelation Chapter 9
2The first woe is past; two other woes are yet to come.
13The sixth angel sounded his trumpet, and I heard a voice coming from the horns[b (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Revelation+9&version=31#fen-NIV-30838b)] of the golden altar that is before God. 14It said to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, "Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates." 15And the four angels who had been kept ready for this very hour and day and month and year were released to kill a third of mankind. 16The number of the mounted troops was two hundred million. I heard their number. (China now sports a 200 million man army.)
17The horses and riders I saw in my vision looked like this: Their breastplates were fiery red, dark blue, and yellow as sulfur. The heads of the horses resembled the heads of lions, and out of their mouths came fire, smoke and sulfur.(A first century writer describing 20th Century Warfare?) 18A third of mankind was killed by the three plagues of fire, smoke and sulfur that came out of their mouths.

[dirtywater07]

Like Mr.Brown said watch out for little China they are gonna be the superpower in 15 years.....look at their politicians they are not lawyers they are all scientists and scholars..Chinese reform is going to take over the world once they grasp the true roots of democracy....who would you rather seee running your country a bunch of lawyers who write letters to each other with legislation attatched and I'll get back to you in 15 years or actually have scientists and great minds discuss what we actually need...our political system is so f-d unfortunately it's the best one but not for long..get all these lawyer/politicians in wacshington D.C. outttta there then we will be a democracy again instead of a freakin police state like we are now.

[tolex42]

think anyone knows a good answer to this war. However it seems to be evident that the current methods are not working. We must try something else.

It reminds me of what my dad said about the great depression. He said no-one blamed Herbert Hoover for the depression. It was that he refused to make the govt. a part of it. People were starving, and his solution was stay the course and it will work itself out. Sound familiar?

He said FDR did many things to try and help. Many of them didn't work but he would then again try something else. My widowed grandmother was greatly helped when an uncle of mine was allowed to go to a CCC camp and work for a small wage. What he sent home monthly put food on the table. Many people made fun of the WPA. However I still see structures standing that are over 75 years old and are still being used. I noticed a school building yesterday that was stamped WPA 1931. The small wage the many unemployed were able to make put food on the table.

Using a volunteer force for the military will result in a very small minority fighting our wars. Much like Vietnam, where mostly blacks and poor whites wound up doing the fighting. LBJ was an idiot to listen to McNamara and his ilk much like GW is an idiot to listen to people like Wolfowitz and Cheney. We never learn. Change must happen.

As far as Iraq. I believe North Korea poses a bigger threat than Iraq. Red China will take over the world someday. They will squash the Islamic's like so many bugs. dbrown20

Quote: George W. Bush has done more to transform the nation than any American president since Franklin D. Roosevelt. Indeed, he may well be the perfect anti-Roosevelt. He has taken a prosperous nation and mired it in war, replaced our national composure with terror, and left behind him a legacy of damage so profound that repairing it will likely be the work of generations. Before the next administration can return to solving the already considerable problems the nation faced in 2000, it must begin to correct misdeeds and missteps of the current one. And as Roosevelt demonstrated, the road back from perdition cannot be found without a good map...... Harpers, June 2007

[PA BEN]

The ultimate R/C aircrafe. I'd love to fly one. Cool pict. and story swamp:)

[topgroove]

Too bad it can't find a six foot two arab muslim hiding somewhere in afganistan near the pakastan boarder.

[Viperexaf]

you'd be surprised what all that aircraft can do and the unlimited possibilities it has, team edwards is still doing more modifications to make it a more efficient killer or reconissance aircraft. They do however have a few other aircraft out there that they're tryin to get all the bugs worked out, once they do, then you'll really be seein the cream of the crop far as air force technology at it's best.

[CenterPointEX]

Do we think for a minute we are the only ones with such an animal?

[CenterPointEX]

Islamic Fascism , The middle east is under siege by Islamic Fascism. Their mantra is "Death to America". We are dealing with an enemy who's highest goal in life is to take out as many infidels as possible in an act of suicide. How do we deal logically with this kind of Ideology? There is no reasoning with Insanity. When you come across a Charles Manson, your only recourse is to eliminate him or separate him from society. Islamic Fascism is just such an animal. When Osama set off the truck bomb in the WTC. I said to myself... Bin Ladin is gonna be pissed about the result... Then he is gonna look for a bigger bomb... Well you know the rest of the Story... But here is the deal... Islamic Fascism is about one thing... Death to Israel, Death to America, One World government under Islamic Rule. They will stop at no border, they will stop at no means... They will.... mark my word... it is not if but when.... they will get their hands on a Nuclear Device... and when they do get their hands on a nuke... We WILL Lose An American City... We can not stamp out Islam... The Koran is not a bout peace... The Satanic Verses are about one thing and one thing only... Going to Hell and taking as many folks along as possible... They are prodigy's of their father the Devil. This is a War that will not end until the coming of Jesus Christ. The current question is not "When will we bring the troops home?" The question is, "On what soil will our troops fight Islamic Fascism? Will we fight this war on the sands of the middle east or in the Heart of America?" Are we in the Last Days?... It seems to be the case... millions of Sheittes are coming to faith is Jesus Christ not because some one told them submit to Christ of Die... oh contrar... They come in droves though they are told if they convert to Christianity, they will die... Your time is Short Swamp... I suggest you figure it out... quickly...

Islamic Fascism comes to the negotiating table for one purpose only... to gain time to find a bigger stick to club us with... Just like Bin Ladin bought time from Clinton to find a bigger bomb. Bush's policy was to take the War to its source... The Hot Bed of Islams training ground... Its hard to be on the offensive when you are Defense. If we walk a way and leave the trainging gounds unfettered... They will regroup... Then Charge... They give no quarter Tolex... for them it's all or nothing. We have no choice but to sit on them. We will never leave the middle east... That is a fact of life... get used to it. Islam will never back down. They are marching straight to Armageddon. They have no heart for peace... Satan knows the end result... He is pissed...

[Orgnizdlbr]

Islamic Fascism , The middle east is under siege by Islamic Fascism. Their mantra is "Death to America". We are dealing with an enemy who's highest goal in life is to take out as many infidels as possible in an act of suicide. How do we deal logically with this kind of Ideology? There is no reasoning with Insanity. When you come across a Charles Manson, your only recourse is to eliminate him or separate him from society. Islamic Fascism is just such an animal. When Osama set off the truck bomb in the WTC. I said to myself... Bin Ladin is gonna be pissed about the result... Then he is gonna look for a bigger bomb... Well you know the rest of the Story... But here is the deal... Islamic Fascism is about one thing... Death to Israel, Death to America, One World government under Islamic Rule. They will stop at no border, they will stop at no means... They will.... mark my word... it is not if but when.... they will get their hands on a Nuclear Device... and when they do get their hands on a nuke... We WILL Lose An American City... We can not stamp out Islam... The Koran is not a bout peace... The Satanic Verses are about one thing and one thing only... Going to Hell and taking as many folks along as possible... They are prodigy's of their father the Devil. This is a War that will not end until the coming of Jesus Christ. The current question is not "When will we bring the troops home?" The question is, "On what soil will our troops fight Islamic Fascism? Will we fight this war on the sands of the middle east or in the Heart of America?" Are we in the Last Days?... It seems to be the case... millions of Sheittes are coming to faith is Jesus Christ not because some one told them submit to Christ of Die... oh contrar... They come in droves though they are told if they convert to Christianity, they will die... Your time is Short Swamp... I suggest you figure it out... quickly...

Islamic Fascism comes to the negotiating table for one purpose only... to gain time to find a bigger stick to club us with... Just like Bin Ladin bought time from Clinton to find a bigger bomb. Bush's policy was to take the War to its source... The Hot Bed of Islams training ground... Its hard to be on the offensive when you are Defense. If we walk a way and leave the trainging gounds unfettered... They will regroup... Then Charge... They give no quarter Tolex... for them it's all or nothing. We have no choice but to sit on them. We will never leave the middle east... That is a fact of life... get used to it. Islam will never back down. They are marching straight to Armageddon. They have no heart for peace... Satan knows the end result... He is pissed...



http://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/topic003.gif

[Viperexaf]

sounds a bunch like what the president of iran said awhile back that his sole purpose is to bring about armagedon. However the U.S. is working on technology to have the means to bring down a nuclear warhead. I still believe we have the best technology in the world when it comes to the war fighter capability, we may never leave the middle east but then again with all the other countries out there that we've gone to war with, then we've never left like germany, japan, cuba, and the list goes on. If it come down to where an american city fell to a nuclear blast and america has kept no secrets about how many nukes we have and the capabilities that we have with them, what do you think is gonna happen to what ever country is stupid enough to try such a thing in the first place? They may eventually get it done but i can pretty much guarantee that they won't have much time to celebrate about their so called first strike.

[CenterPointEX]

First off, Islam does not have a specific place which we could nuke to wipe it off the map. The bomb they blast our American City with will most likely not be launced on a missle, but rather flown or carried in by a suicide bomber. The first will most likely not be a full fleged nuclear warhead, but rather a dirty bomb. Second, do you really think we would chunk a nuke into the source of Americas Lifeblood... Oil? **** Cheneys assets would not fare well in that situation. But if you want a heads up, start investing in Oil Companies who are not vested in the middle east. Such as Canetic Resources Trust developing wells outside the middle east.

[Viperexaf]

First off, Islam does not have a specific place which we could nuke to wipe it off the map. The bomb they blast our American City with will most likely not be launced on a missle, but rather flown or carried in by a suicide bomber. The first will most likely not be a full fleged nuclear warhead, but rather a dirty bomb. Second, do you really think we would chunk a nuke into the source of Americas Lifeblood... Oil? **** Cheneys assets would not fare well in that situation. But if you want a heads up, start investing in Oil Companies who are not vested in the middle east. Such as Canetic Resources Trust developing wells outside the middle east.

well cp your prolly right about chunking a nuke over there, but the fear of a dirty bomb gettin into the states has been an ongoing problem every since 9/11 happened and is still a top priority on how to defuse if the problem ever come up, which eventually your prolly right again will happen. Far as cheney then he's only got another yr or so before he'll be out of office and won't have much of a say so as to what the next president does, either way my soul is ready and just waitin for the man upstairs to call me home

[CenterPointEX]

Canetic Resources Trust is a good buy right now because they are sinking a lot of money into development of domestic wells. The Stock has taken a dip becaue of the recent shift in this developement direction making it a good buy at 15 dollars. Pays a good dividend also.

[wavector]

Naw man.

"Did you Tevo that babe?"

:D

"Tivo"
Did you ever serve in the military?

[tolex42]

1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier +1 soldier= 113, the number of American soldiers killed in Iraq during the month of May, 2007.

The questions remain, what is our mission, what is our exit strategy, what will define victory or defeat. How many more Americans will die for George Bush's mistake?

[PA BEN]

Do the Democrats that voted to go to war have blood on there hands too?:confused:

[tolex42]

Do the Democrats that voted to go to war have blood on there hands too?:confused:


YES I BELIVE THEY DO

[tolex42]

Naw Ben...
not a chance man. The above, is how democrats fight.
Blame, *****, and cut and run.

They'll just say they're "sorry", they "made a mistake" and "Kiss, Kiss"...all is forgiven.:D

NOW...I'm AGAINST THIS WAR!!!!!!!!!!:cool: :cool:

God Bless America.

Can't prove it but probably as many of the 113 killed were democrats as republicans but it doesn't matter what their politics were. They were fine young Americans who lost their lives.

And by the way the way who the hell said cut and run? You right-wingers always resort to clichés you heard on Fox News. Turn off the **** television and read, then maybe you will get a real understanding of just what is happening in Iraq.

[tolex42]

"clichés" ?? :D

"The questions remain, what is our mission, what is our exit strategy, what will define victory or defeat."

"WHY AM I HERE GOD!!!!!!!":cool:

So...
"You right-wingers"...heh, heh, heh...:D


Guys like you, just gonna keep postin Body Counts every day...then get your ass all up in the air, when I call ya a "Cut and run Fu#%in democrat?";)

Here's a cliché...
You're a hypocrite.



"Body count", now there you go again. Another cliché created to distract people from an unpopular war. Don't reduce the deaths of 113 American soldiers to a cliché like body count. Each and everyone of them was a human being, a brave American who is now dead and will be dead forever. Are they dead because of weapons of mass destruction that did not exist, are the dead because of a link with terrorism that did not exist? Are they dead because we are intercedeing in an Iraqi civil war?

Lean back away from the keyboard for one minute. Close your eyes and try to visualize these young men and women who died. Try to visualize the grieving parents, their crying widows and their children who are left without fathers forever. I wonder when you open your eyes if you can find a way to justify our involvement in Iraq and are they still just a "body count."

[tolex42]

If this doesn't break your heart, nothing will.




http://www.sepaalf.org/images/girl.jpg

[CenterPointEX]

Don't reduce the deaths of 113 ... to a cliché like body count. Each and everyone of them was a human being, Are they dead because of weapons of mass destruction that did not exist, are the dead because of a link with terrorism that did not exist? Are they dead because we are intercedeing in an ... civil war? The daily count of babies killed in their mothers wombs dwarfs the 113 body count. Are they dead because of weapons of mass destruction? No, not hardly, the weapon would double as a vacuum cleaner. The children are ripped limb from limb with no drugs to ease the pain... Its over pretty quickly and none survive... thats the difference between war and abortion. But the young lady laying there next to the grave is indicative of the eventual outcome of the spirit of those who participate in an abortion. Yes, people die... last I checked the body count is one hundred out of one hundred. The boys who signed up to defend our freedom knew what they were signing up for. Even if they did not, as soon as they found out they still had options not to go. I personally know some folks who freaked at the prospect of war and were given a discharge... a step above dishonorable but none the less they were let out. The babies however had no say so. We all die. So, the question is what do we live for? Do we live to die? Or do we live for a greater cause?... Me, myself and I live for a greater cause... The Cause of My Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. He does not wish that any live eternal death... None the less He gives us the option... Me, myself and I am Pro-Choice. It is good that we can choose to circumvent living eternal death.

[PA BEN]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGHty_S0TU0

[LostArt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGHty_S0TU0


Wow. What a rack!

Hey, don't look at me, Ben started this, not I!!!!

[PA BEN]

Swamp did you say you were curious.:eek:

[tolex42]

On Iraq, we have done what we could. Our soldiers rid Iraq of Saddam Hussein. The administration's incompetence and cronyism undermined any hope of a quick transition, but four years later, we've finally helped organize two elections and a constitution. Now Iraqis need to take control of their own destiny. A majority of Iraqis want us to begin withdrawing troops, as does the new Prime Minister. It is time for us to go.

Our security is best served by getting out. In Iraq, our troops are caught up in civil strife between rival Iraqi factions. Our decision to invade Iraq has divided us from our allies, and our presence in the country is fueling hatred of the United States in the Muslim world. We need to work with the international community to support stability in Iraq, but it is time for us to refocus on building a global alliance against al Qaeda and the fanatics committed to international terror.

We have to end the partisan politics around the war with al Qaeda. And we have to get serious about security at home. Let's stop letting cronyism and corruption cripple this central task and invest the resources needed to secure our borders and our ports, to bolster our public health and first responder capacities and to ensure that nuclear, chemical and other prime targets have adequate defense plans.

[LostArt]

I'm personally glad in 1961 that a young woman decided to have a baby instead of an abortion. Although not much of that went on back then, but some women...instead of the shame and maybe humiliation of carrying a child, would try and take a dark backroom somewhere and go through the pain and thoughts of if they were doing the right thing or not. Not to mention if they would themselves live through it.

It's a true fact that most women, young and old, still carry the emotional effects of having an abortion. Today is different, as far as having an abortion. We are now at a new technological/medical age to where anything we do is easier. Soon it becomes easier to decide these decisions because it's as easy as changing clothes. Something that takes no thought, but is routine. But, still these women carry inner scars.

So, in a way, when we watch our young men and women return from overseas that have done combat or watched those of their commrades in arms killed or even when they have killed, they also carry inner scars.

We all are given a choice in life. We all have (in one way or another) made scrafices or a choice that will effect our families, communities, country and maybe even our world. A decision you make today, may effect those you love tomorrow. We all have a choice.

I'm glad that young woman didn't get rid of her baby in 1961. Whatever ran through her mind when she was having this baby, I'm glad she gave him up instead of an abortion. That baby was adopted by a mother that couldn't have children. She raised him and loved him and then watch him get married, have two children, and become a good man.

That good man is my husband.

[tolex42]

I'm personally glad in 1961 that a young woman decided to have a baby instead of an abortion. Although not much of that went on back then, but some women...instead of the shame and maybe humiliation of carrying a child, would try and take a dark backroom somewhere and go through the pain and thoughts of if they were doing the right thing or not. Not to mention if they would themselves live through it.

It's a true fact that most women, young and old, still carry the emotional effects of having an abortion. Today is different, as far as having an abortion. We are now at a new technological/medical age to where anything we do is easier. Soon it becomes easier to decide these decisions because it's as easy as changing clothes. Something that takes no thought, but is routine. But, still these women carry inner scars.

So, in a way, when we watch our young men and women return from overseas that have done combat or watched those of their commrades in arms killed or even when they have killed, they also carry inner scars.

We all are given a choice in life. We all have (in one way or another) made scrafices or a choice that will effect our families, communities, country and maybe even our world. A decision you make today, may effect those you love tomorrow. We all have a choice.

I'm glad that young woman didn't get rid of her baby in 1961. Whatever ran through her mind when she was having this baby, I'm glad she gave him up instead of an abortion. That baby was adopted by a mother that couldn't have children. She raised him and loved him and then watch him get married, have two children, and become a good man.

That good man is my husband.


I think that good man has a very good wife.

[LostArt]

I think that good man has a very good wife.

Heh. YOU don't live with me. :D But, I thank you Lex.

**sighs** Another 5 young men killed today and one not war related. I don't know the solution guys. I know that this is a heated debate with many of you and some of us have more at stake than most. I know folks like Mr. Batts, and his Patriot Guards, are at work and the rest of us are supporting it in some ways or another....whether we hash it out here or do it quietly in other ways. I'm personally proud to be an American, and I'm very proud of our men and women who sacrifice their lives that we may have the freedoms that we have.

However, we have become a complaisant people. We say we are Americans, we live in the land of the free, we fight for freedom and liberity and yet, I don't see many of us agreeing on it. We have let what we stand for become something that no longer exists. Whether it be because of economy, religion, issues within issues...........jeeze, what are we now? I scratch my head and think, "I'm lost. What are we disagreeing on? Are we agreeing on ANYTHING?" No wonder our youth are confused! We are all either straddling the fence or yelling at each other over it!

I just wish one man or woman, would stand up and say it like it is and for goodness sakes..........AND...STAND by it! All this wishy-washy stuff is making me dag gum sick. Sick at heart, that is.

Again, I don't know the solution. There are too many gray areas. If that makes any sense....

[PA BEN]

Harry Reed called them ILLEAGLE AMERICANS, and we need to make them legal so they can be AMERICANS. What a load of BULL!!!:mad:

[LostArt]

I wrote my buddie George yesterday, seriously...the secret service will probably be visiting me.

I told him to take his Immigrant bill and stuff it up his ass. It's nothing but BULL**** amnisty.

:eek: You did WHAT????? But, but, but..........it HELPS the ECONOMY buddy! And since we AMERICANS won't do the "work" the ILLEGAL immigrants will!! That's the solution Swamp! Instead of those AMERICANS out of work (or those that WON'T work) that are feeding off of our tax dollars, we have illegal immigrants to do their work AND tax us working Americans AGAIN!!

Don't ya know Swamp??? We are all rollin' in our FREE AMERICAN dollars!!!




As for "Wishey washey" ****, You know I don't do that LA.:D

Heh. I'll keep wishING and you keep WASHing! :D

[LostArt]

Swamp, take that blasted smilie off of my quoted post you have in your box darlin'!! I was not grinnin' when I wrote that part! Take it off, I look silly!

BTW, are we through fussin'? I really shouldn't fuss without my cup of coffee. That would be a bad move on my part. Not to mention hurting and squintin' eyes trying to read it.....

[PA BEN]

I know of a guy who went to Florida to work as a farm worker and couldn’t get a job because he was a white boy. He was told he couldn’t work as hard.

[LostArt]

I know of a guy who went to Florida to work as a farm worker and couldn’t get a job because he was a white boy. He was told he couldn’t work as hard.

Oh, NOW you asked for it! Swamp is going to give you an earful on this one! :D

Florida and California are probably the worse states that get this or that I know about, or maybe even Texas. But, you'd think our Governors would work on that!

I think what really bothers me is that they should have to go through the channels just like anyone else coming to America. AND that ENGLISH should be the #1 language spoken in America. I couldn't live in Miami---not to mention the crime and huge population, but I was down there back during the Hurricane Andrew storm and the Boss had to have an interpreter with him at all times. You couldn't communicate with anyone down there without having one with you.

You know, if I moved another country, I would expect to learn their language, not visa versa! I suwannee, we are going backwards here! I'm sure we will change the name "AMERICA" before it's all over and done with!

Ummm..........I think I've had enough coffee now....

[CenterPointEX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SBatts http://www.powerlineman.com/lforum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.powerlineman.com/lforum/showthread.php?p=31642#post31642)
... a habit of stepping on the rights of ... ...unwanted children in this world. Then the moron can compare abortion to the deaths of GI's killed in Iraq....More on Hate Groups

Let me see...? Is it possible Mr. Batts to compare the violent death of a child... wanted or not, to the violent death of a soldier who signed up to be trained to fight an enemy? Again ... has the child signed up to be killed? Talk about hate groups... Those like you Mr. Batts, who condone the killing of a child because the childs mother no longer thinks that child has a right to live, truly must be filled with hate... and who is it you hate? Anyone who would interfere with your clean conscience regarding the killing of a child.

[CenterPointEX]

I'm personally glad in 1961 that a young woman decided to have a baby instead of an abortion. Although not much of that went on back then, but some women...instead of the shame and maybe humiliation of carrying a child, would try and take a dark backroom somewhere and go through the pain and thoughts of if they were doing the right thing or not. Not to mention if they would themselves live through it.

It's a true fact that most women, young and old, still carry the emotional effects of having an abortion. Today is different, as far as having an abortion. We are now at a new technological/medical age to where anything we do is easier. Soon it becomes easier to decide these decisions because it's as easy as changing clothes. Something that takes no thought, but is routine. But, still these women carry inner scars.

So, in a way, when we watch our young men and women return from overseas that have done combat or watched those of their commrades in arms killed or even when they have killed, they also carry inner scars.

We all are given a choice in life. We all have (in one way or another) made scrafices or a choice that will effect our families, communities, country and maybe even our world. A decision you make today, may effect those you love tomorrow. We all have a choice.

I'm glad that young woman didn't get rid of her baby in 1961. Whatever ran through her mind when she was having this baby, I'm glad she gave him up instead of an abortion. That baby was adopted by a mother that couldn't have children. She raised him and loved him and then watch him get married, have two children, and become a good man.

That good man is my husband.
Good Post L.A. .... We all have a choice... Serve God or Serve mammon...

[CenterPointEX]

If this doesn't break your heart, nothing will.




http://www.sepaalf.org/images/girl.jpgThe grave is a portal... to eternity... Indeed we fight a war. The effects of this war are eternal. We battle for the souls of men. Namely our own... If you look closely at this picture, the greater tragedy is the head stone next to her loved one... It does not bear the mark of one who died in Christ. This young woman while sad that her loved one is gone, walks in the comfort of his where abouts. Yet for a time she will suffer... as will all men, because...

..........Yes... suffering is the product of Sin... Sin is where we go when we turn away from God. East of Eden... We as a country have turned away from God... We as a country have turned towards Sin... To Repent is to turn away from Sin\suffering... To turn away from suffering is to turn to God.... As long as we remain this side of the grave... We will not be free from the effect of Sin... But if Christ lives in us we at least will not be slaves to it... Ladies and Gentlemen... I am here to tell you... This War that I speak of, does have an end... The question for each of you... is "Will you be on the side of the Victor?"

[PA BEN]

That boy must be dumber than a box of Rocks.

Hell, Pike will pay almost a hundred bucks a day, to hire a grunt off the street!
But it will only take a couple days to see if he needs to be... "pickin fruit"....
If ya get my drift.

swamp thats a great picture.

And yes the boy's not to brite. Very unskilled but a hard worker. I don't know why he wanted to go so far to pick fruit but the fact is they didn't give him a chance to wark because he was a white boy.:mad:

[tolex42]

Sen. Richard Lugar, a senior Republican and a reliable vote for President Bush on the war, said Monday that Bush's Iraq strategy was not working and that the United States should downsize the military's role.

The unusually blunt assessment deals a political blow to Bush, who has relied heavily on GOP support to stave off anti-war legislation.

[tolex42]

I’m outraged. President Bush commuted Scooter Libby’s prison sentence wiping away two and half years of jail time with the stroke of a pen. President Bush ignored Libby’s felony conviction for lying to investigators, to a grand jury, ignored the jury’s guilty verdict, and ignored the rule of law that governs our nation.

Thousands of people are sitting jail in America after being convicted of obstruction of justice. In jail is where Libby should be too. This is another example of different rules for the elite, the wealthy the powerful and those with friends in high places.

We expect more from our President. We expect honor and integrity, we expect moral leadership. We expect our President and his staff to be held to a higher standard. Apparently he doesn't know what "justice for all" means.

[tolex42]

I don't know the exact number, but wasen't it somethin like 425 felons Clinton Pardoned his last day in office? Read the offenses of THAT bunch if you want to be "Outraged". And they were all PARDONED!

Bush just commuted Libby's sentence. He hasen't pardoned him....Yet. :D


OK, let's make a comparison between Bush and Clinton.



George Bush……………….
1.Did not appear for a National Guard assignment in Alabama.
2.Skipped a National Guard drug test.
3.Elected with a questionable vote count, twice.
4.Failed in every business he entered. Needed to be bailed out by father’s wealthy friends.
5.Sat frozen for seven minutes, like a deer in the headlights when told about the 9/11 terrorist attacks.
6.Arrived on an aircraft carrier in this spacesuit and a helmet, 3 miles offshore and declared “mission accomplished”.
7.Had a questionable bulge in the back of his suit coat as he stumbled through his first presidential debate. Claimed there was a wardrobe malfunction.
8.Lied about Weapons of Mass Destruction and terrorism in Iraq.
9.Ignored advice of general’s and advisers regarding starting war with Iraq.
10.Attempted to appoint his unqualified legal adviser, Myers to the Supreme Court.
11.Appointed John Ashcroft as Attorney General after he lost a Senate race to a dead man who got more votes than Ashcroft.
12.Has difficulty speaking in complete sentences.
13.Changed story four times regarding the firing of Justice Department Attorneys.
14.Squandered surplus and has driven country in to $5 trillion debt that will require generations to recover from.
15.Allowed billions of dollars of no bid contracts to be awarded to his friends with Halliburton.
16.Alienated America with almost every country in the world.
17.Allowed millions of illegal aliens to enter the country.
18.Wants to give illegal aliens amnesty.
19.Violated the fundamentals of our Constitution to the right of privacy and jurisprudence.
20.Failed to seek legal warrants for searches, when all he needed to do was ask.
21.Agreed to sell our ports to the Arabs.
22.Allowed the Bin Laden family to flee America after 9/11.
23.By the way, where is Bin Laden?
24.Failed to provide troops and support against the real terrorist base, Afghanistan.
25.Claims to support troops while Walter Reed becomes a disgrace to our veterans.

Bill Clinton………….
1.Lied about sex.

[tolex42]

Wait! I thought you were "Outraged" at Bush's commuting Libby?
Don't want to talk about "Pardons" no more? ;)

Sure, I would like to discuss pardons further. I believe that 95% of the pardons issued, whether by Bush, Clinton, Bush #1, Reagan, etc., are wrong. If convicted by a jury of their peers and given a fair sentence by a judge, no one should be pardoned. Pardons should only be issued if it is found later that the party is innocent. I feel the handng out of pardons by presidents as favors to friends, associates and cronies goes against everything that America stands for and should be abolished.

Bush's decision to commute Scooter Libby's sentence is disgraceful. His conviction was the one faint glimmer of accountability for White House efforts to manipulate intelligence and silence critics of the Iraq War. During Libby's trial, evidence was presented that proved what we already knew.

When Joe Wilson courageously told the truth and exposed the deceitful behavior that lead up to the Iraq War, members of the Bush administration, at the highest level, sought revenge on him by outing his wife - a covert CIA operative. And no matter you right wingers say, none of those facts are up for debate. Valerie Plame was a covert CIA operative and high-level White House Staff members destroyed her career.

Outing a spy has serious consequences to the security of our nation. But Scooter Libby, Karl Rove, and others simply didn't care. And because of Libby's perjury and his obstruction of a federal investigation (the crimes he was convicted of) we will never know the full extent of this plot or its damage.

The judge correctly determined that Libby deserved to be imprisoned for lying about a matter of national security. The Constitution gives the President the power to commute sentences, but history will judge him harshly for using that power to benefit his own Vice President's Chief of Staff who was convicted of such a serious violation of law. This action is nothing short of a continuation of the obstruction of justice begun by Scooter Libby.

Now Swamprat, I would like to hear some open mindedness from you and have you tell me if you can find any justification in the pardoning of Libby.

[tolex42]

I'm with ya 100% Mr. T. 100%.

If a Person is convicted of some "crime", unless irrafutable evidence is presented, There should be no Pardons or commuteing of a sentance by ANYONE. President, Govenor or whoever.

I also believe our Govt. needs to understand the meaning of the word ILLEAGLE, if our Govt. wants the American people to respect the "Rule of Law."


So then I would be correct in assuming that you to are outraged by President Bush's immoral, if not illegal pardoning on Libby.

[tolex42]

It's pretty outrageous: Senate Republicans are planning to block key votes to stop the war this week because they know they'll lose.

You read that right: with the Democratic majority plus three key Republicans ready to vote for an exit strategy for Iraq, the Senate has enough votes to pass legislation that would force President Bush to bring most troops home by April. But the Republicans are trying to stop that vote.

Republicans are abandoning President Bush on Iraq. For the last two weeks Republican support for the war has crumbled in Congress.

Prominent Senate Republicans like Senators Lugar (IN), Voinovich (OH) and Domenici (NM) have called for a change in course while others, like Senators Snowe (ME), Hagel (NE) and Smith (OR) have co-sponsored Democratic legislation to bring our troops home.

The White House is panicked. Last week, ABC News ran a report with the headline "'Crack in the Dike': White House in 'Panic Mode' Over GOP Revolt on Iraq."

The report indicates that the White House is looking for ways to "appease Democrats and keep wobbly Republicans onboard."

Editorial boards across the country are pushing for exit from Iraq. Just last week the New York Times—a bellwether newspaper with an influential editorial board—officially endorsed withdrawal from Iraq. The New York Times now joins papers like the Portland Press Herald—which helped swing key Maine Senator, Olympia Snowe to support exit plans, the Los Angeles Times and others in saying it is now time to leave Iraq.

The Iraqi Prime Minister says U.S. troops can leave. Polls of Iraqi public opinion have shown that Iraqis want American troops to go home.

And on Saturday, Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki told the press that his government is capable of taking care of Iraq and American troops can leave "any time they want."

[LostArt]

I'm gonna have to move my handle....farther to the right.

And not exist!????

Jeeze, Swamp has a ghost of an avatar and it's moving! http://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/smiley3.gif

Hehehe.........sorry Tolex. But, that just cracked me up! :D

[CenterPointEX]

First off, Islam does not have a specific place which we could nuke to wipe it off the map. The bomb they blast our American City with will most likely not be launced on a missle, but rather flown or carried in by a suicide bomber. The first will most likely not be a full fleged nuclear warhead, but rather a dirty bomb. Second, do you really think we would chunk a nuke into the source of Americas Lifeblood... Oil? **** Cheneys assets would not fare well in that situation. But if you want a heads up, start investing in Oil Companies who are not vested in the middle east. Such as Canetic Resources Trust developing wells outside the middle east.

[tolex42]

3,724..........1-20-09

[tolex42]

Percentage of equipment the Pentagon has issued to Iraqi security forces since 2003 that cannot be accounted for: 30%. That includes at least "110,000 AK-47 rifles, 80,000 pistols, 135,000 items of body armor and 115,000 helmets", according to the US Government Accountability Office (GAO). According to the Washington Post, "One senior Pentagon official acknowledged that some of the weapons probably are being used against US forces." ......OH REALLY.....DO YOU THINK!

Thank you Halliburton for the great job of inventory control.

[dirtdobber]

what has this country come to. the land of the free and brave where the hell has the brave run off to IRAN IRAQ who knows.we use to stand tall and free but now we run from ****. the bible clearly states an EYE for an EYE.it is not about who is the pres its about the AMERICAN people screw everyone else if we keep the grass mowed in our own yard we would not have to worry about someone elses. they came into our yard and **** in it so we should **** in theres but 2 fold yes there will be casualltys thats expected but for us that are at home we should thank those for fighting for us to do just what we are doing right now. THINK ABOUT THAT FOR AWHILE!!!!!!!!!!:D

[tolex42]

what has this country come to. the land of the free and brave where the hell has the brave run off to IRAN IRAQ who knows.we use to stand tall and free but now we run from ****. the bible clearly states an EYE for an EYE.it is not about who is the pres its about the AMERICAN people screw everyone else if we keep the grass mowed in our own yard we would not have to worry about someone elses. they came into our yard and **** in it so we should **** in theres but 2 fold yes there will be casualltys thats expected but for us that are at home we should thank those for fighting for us to do just what we are doing right now. THINK ABOUT THAT FOR AWHILE!!!!!!!!!!:D

OK I thought about it and I still come to the same conclusion. Iraq had no connection with the terrorist attack on American and they had no Weapons of Mass Destruction. Nobody is questioning the bravery or loyalty of our troops. They are doing a fantastic job. The very best thing we could do for them now is to bring them home, alive, with all their arms and legs, with no more sacrifices for their idiot Commander and Chief.


I will ask to same question "what has this country come to". We attacked a country without being provoked, we hold people in prison for years and not only do not give them are fair trial but we don't even tell them what they're charged with. We have a Vice President's company profiteering in billions and billions of dollars from this war. We have a President and Vice President, who were draft dodgers, stating "America doesn't have the stomach for war" while they send reservist into combat for two and three terms. We have a President who says he will listen to the generals, but when they say something contrary to his policy they're fired.

Indeed, what has this country come to........

[Orgnizdlbr]

Were you born this naive...

Naive : (having or showing a lack of experience, judgment, or information; credulous: He's so naive he believes everything he reads. He has a very naive attitude toward politics.)

Or... did this syndrome just come upon you as you got older, and you grew more complaciant and "Peace loving" and Fuc$ing Stupid?

You and bat****, just seem to be one dimentional type of guys. Sad. Alot of America is just as dumb as both of you are.

You both, have no Fuc$ing clue, as to the Direction, the America Government...Democrat or Republican... is persuing, and GOING to persue... and what the "Global" Reality of TODAY.., realy entails.....

You both represent a large portion of America, That's what scares me about *******s like you, and the direction of AMERICA.

Swamp, who is really being naive?

[tolex42]

Were you born this naive...

Naive : (having or showing a lack of experience, judgment, or information; credulous: He's so naive he believes everything he reads. He has a very naive attitude toward politics.)

Or... did this syndrome just come upon you as you got older, and you grew more complaciant and "Peace loving" and Fuc$ing Stupid?

You and bat****, just seem to be one dimentional type of guys. Sad. Alot of America is just as dumb as both of you are.

You both, have no Fuc$ing clue, as to the Direction, the America Government...Democrat or Republican... is persuing, and GOING to persue... and what the "Global" Reality of TODAY.., realy entails.....

You both represent a large portion of America, That's what scares me about *******s like you, and the direction of AMERICA.

Swamper, please take my previous advice and switch to decaf, you are becoming too emotional.

You're doing yourself a terrible disservice by using the "F" word in your responses. Using the "F" word demonstrates that the user is ignorant and has a diluted position that he's trying to emphasis by swearing. It tells me you do not have a real basis for your argument. You can do better than that.

If you think I'm one-dimensional, choose a different topic. I would welcome the opportunity to debate you on almost anything.

[wormy]

Batts is out helping guys that come back, actually doing something to support the troops while you and I sit on our recliners swimpy running our mouths

[tolex42]

How about that Senator Larry Craig, soliciting sex in a men's room. And what about Biter having sex with all those Washington *****s. Don't forget about Foley, while giving speeches about child abuse he was having sex with teenage boys. Then there is Duke Cunningham who traded votes for sex.

The **** dirty Liberal Democrats...... Wait a minute, they weren't Democrats, they were "family values, conservative Christian Republicans".

When Bill Clinton got a B.J. Larry Craig was one of the most outspoken Senators. Biter tried to present a "Holier than thou attitude". They appointed a special prosecutor and had about five years of public investigations. What goes around comes around.

[LostArt]

Good thats one vote the freedom loving democrats don't have to worry about.

LOL! Who didn't see that coming????? :D

Good luck on the job offer Steve and glad you made it back safely.

[Koga]

Good luck in the new job ! Also I dont like to talk politics a whole lot but I'm gettin real dsgusted with all of em. Fat elephants and jackasses. :mad: While the US is going to hell in a handbasket over NAFTA and other incompetent decisions from both sides of the isle. Is there a one of em that aint lettin somebody play pocket pool with em in hopes of paddin thier own bank accounts. All of em. Sending OUR money overseas as fast as I can make it. To a bunch of ungreatful ******* rag heads who only want to cut our throats the first chance they get. The first canidate that tells the Saudies , Enough, it either stops today or next week you won't have any more oil wells or tanker ships making it out of the ports Any where within 1000 miles. Tell Mexico to stop the exodus or else we have a surprise for all your drug lords fields and homes( can you say napalm). Plus we'll have all the guard from middle east back home on the southern border to stop it. Find all the illegals and send there asses back where they came from. Do not pass go do not collect ****. Any hospital or public schools caterin to em will lose license and any federal money period.And all the money we save supportin em we're gonna spend on the welfare of our troops and thier families. In pay and medical benifits and up thier pensions. Tell the UN to pack its ass up and move to say France. They can support it a while. Tell the IRS you better start cuttin back because we're going to a flat 10% across the board no exceptions for anyone. And you don't need all the crap laws and regulations youve been dishing out to do that. Thats just changes in my first year and if ya any of the folks on the hill don't like it get the hell out of my house. Thats the canidate I think would win in a landslide that the US has never seen before. I know Id vote for em. But I don't think any of em has a set big enough.

Koga

[Stinger]

Koga, your right on the target. I tend to be more libertarian & independent myself. Right now both parties discust me. The fisrt mistake we made was no exit plan in the war. This mistake is taking its tolls in in deaths and injuries. I have been in war and have seen the deaths and injuries up close and personal. I know some of my brothers on this have also experienced it too. As Eshinhower once said " war is idiotic " . The entire middleeast hates our ass. I believe the next time the PM of Iraq says he does not need the US troops in his country, that is our ace in the hole to leave honorably. I also believe we should hold our congress and president responsible to make it happen the next time he says that. We need to take the money this war is costing us and put back into the pockets of the working people. Withdraw from NAFTA, GAT, UN, etc. Our infrastructure is in shambles, our borders are unsecure, our constitutional rights are being erroded by special interest groups. Our biggest threat to freedom is from within our own boarders. Lets get back to being the leader of science, technology, manufacturing, and labor. Back in the late 80's Pat Buchanon was running for president, he talked about a lot these issues and was labeled a nut job, same as Ross perot, guess what, It has all come to pass. How come we do not leatrn from our own history. Well, I have rambeled on enough. Mr. T if you read this Listen to all the news stations so you can a balance of both sides on the issues. You once said we need to get involved instead of running our mouths. I am currently supporting two candidates, one in congress and one for president. The congrssional candidate has to with local issues effecting our state and district, the other is Fred Thompson for president. One last thing, one of the great sidelines of this site is we have a good broad base of people on the issues from accross the country without having to go to other numerous sites. Lineman are like cowboys, they tell what is on their minds and could care less if it is polictically correct or not.

[tolex42]

Koga, your right on the target. I tend to be more libertarian & independent myself. Right now both parties discust me. The fisrt mistake we made was no exit plan in the war. This mistake is taking its tolls in in deaths and injuries. I have been in war and have seen the deaths and injuries up close and personal. I know some of my brothers on this have also experienced it too. As Eshinhower once said " war is idiotic " . The entire middleeast hates our ass. I believe the next time the PM of Iraq says he does not need the US troops in his country, that is our ace in the hole to leave honorably. I also believe we should hold our congress and president responsible to make it happen the next time he says that. We need to take the money this war is costing us and put back into the pockets of the working people. Withdraw from NAFTA, GAT, UN, etc. Our infrastructure is in shambles, our borders are unsecure, our constitutional rights are being erroded by special interest groups. Our biggest threat to freedom is from within our own boarders. Lets get back to being the leader of science, technology, manufacturing, and labor. Back in the late 80's Pat Buchanon was running for president, he talked about a lot these issues and was labeled a nut job, same as Ross perot, guess what, It has all come to pass. How come we do not leatrn from our own history. Well, I have rambeled on enough. Mr. T if you read this Listen to all the news stations so you can a balance of both sides on the issues. You once said we need to get involved instead of running our mouths. I am currently supporting two candidates, one in congress and one for president. The congrssional candidate has to with local issues effecting our state and district, the other is Fred Thompson for president. One last thing, one of the great sidelines of this site is we have a good broad base of people on the issues from accross the country without having to go to other numerous sites. Lineman are like cowboys, they tell what is on their minds and could care less if it is polictically correct or not.


You make a lot of sense in the things that you that you say Stinger. As I said in a recent post "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result". We need a complete change in how we choose our leaders. I had felt that a viable third-party candidate could make a change in this country ever since Eugene McCarthy attempted to take on the establishment. However since that time, third-party candidates have more or less taken on the role of a spoiler, example Ralph Nader, rather than someone who can make a real change.

My belief is that one of the most harmful things to our democracy is the two-party system. Since apparently a viable third-party candidate cannot make a difference, I think both parties should be abolished. Candidates who win elections and go on to become elected politicians should only have allegiance to their constituents. They should act and vote only for the benefit of their constituents and not to satisfy the bosses of their party. No matter how good of an idea the Democrats have, the Republicans oppose it, because it wasn't their idea. What ever good idea the Republicans have the Democrats oppose it because they didn't thing of it first.

On another post you can read how some Canadians feel about us. Unfortunately, that's not the minority. Most of the world no longer respects us. They see what we're doing to ourselves and to them. I heard recently that we have over 750 military bases in foreign countries around the world. I don't know if that true, but if we have even half that many you can see the folly of us attempting to flex our military might overseas while allowing our country to fall apart at home. I know this will draw a loud response from some who post here who think they are super patriots. But our country is in serious trouble. The schools, highways, bridges, illegal immigrants, drugs, murder rate in the inner cities, spiraling healthcare cost, etc.. We could all add to this list.

I do try to get a balanced view of the news, I watch CNN, MSNBC, ABC. I read a newspaper every day, Newsweek every week and Harper's monthly. While driving I listen to a local all news show, NPR and BBC. I keep trying to be a regular viewer of Fox News but the presentation is too bias to right-wing conservatives. Stinger, I still feel we must all get involved in the issues of the day. We must speak to our coworkers, our neighbors, people on the street, but most of all our families at the dinner table about the important issues facing America today.

[tolex42]

I agree with alot of what you are saying Mr. T. A viable 3rd party in America would truly be a blessing. You pointed out Ralph Nader. I presonally think he was more of a joke than an actual spoiler. Ross Perot? That man actually was a spoiler. If he haden't run, I don't think Clinton would have ever seen the white house, but that's neither here nor there.

We definately need a viable 3rd party. Unfortunately, as much as I'd like to see it, I just can't see it becoming a reality. But "Here's hoping".

As for "most of the world no longer respects us". I find that truly interesting. If that's really the case, then I would like to ask..."Which Country or Countrys in the world, DO "most of the world Respect"?

And, why doesen't "The World" ask those countrys for help whenever it's needed? The Truth is Mr. T, most of the world is jealous and envious of America. Mainly because of the War in Iraq. But if it wasen't for that, They would sure find another reason to hate America.

The war in Iraq has polarized much of the world, against America. 9-11 Woke up America and the world for a couple years, but now that America is Fully IN The Fight against Radical Islam, the world is getting "tired" of war and sees us as "the bully of the world". They, as many Americans just want us to stop the fighting and "bring the troops home". How soon we all forget....

It's NOT going to stop Mr. T. Radical Islam is NOT going to Go away, and there IS NO Compromising with them. They are out to annilelate our country and our way of Life here in America, and will never stop. But....Alas....the world has "tired" of War, and thus, we are the blunt and the ******* country of the world.

I graduated from high School on one of those "Military Bases" you talked about overseas. America has Military bases overseas At the REQUEST of the host country. Why? Because they believe that the presence of Ameirca in the region will help keep Peace in the region...whatever region.
There are "Other countrys" out there, that would conduct regional politics a hell of alot differently if the United States didn't have alliances with these countrys and a presence in the region. Perhaps THOSE Other countrys are the ones that might "Have more respect" in the world over America?

Why is it SO Important to americans like yourself, what the "World" thinks about America??

Please tell me, honestly, WHAT do believe America should DO on the world Stage so "the rest of the world", will "Respect" us again? Pray tell....

The Truth is Mr. T, "The World" will NEVER Respect America like people like you want. We just Can't afford that kind of "respect" in this world of Today. You really just seem to be so negitave of America. WHAT are "We doing to ourselves and THEM" Sir, that in your eyes, make THEM hate us so much???

Really. You make comments like that, please tell me "Your Vision" of how America should be conducting itself on the World Stage Of TODAY.

What ARE the "Important issues" facing America today?

You really don't need to mention our SURVIVAL as a Nation. Just the Real important things.....that will make the World "respect" us again.....

Which countries are the most respected in the world? I don't have proof or statistics on this but they're probably the Scandinavian countries, Germany, Spain, Australia and maybe a few others. Respect is highly valued by some and has little value to others. Personally, I place a high value on respect. Can we live without it, sure we can. Giving and receiving respect is a good thing, you should try it sometime!

I certainly agree, the world comes to us when they need help or money. It is time for that to stop. Why do we still have military bases in Korea, they are strong and wealthy. Why do we continue to protect Taiwan from Red China to whom we have freely given our manufacturing, technology and military secrets and have made them our biggest trading partner. Why do we still have military bases in very wealthy Japan. How about Germany. Who are we protecting the Germans from, France. Why do we have military bases in Turkey, they refused to help us in the invasion of Iraq. And how about military bases in Saudi Arabia. Don't they have enough money to protect themselves? wasn't our bases in Saudi Arabia the primary reason for 9/11 ? We have given hundreds of billions of dollars of aid to Israel, what do we get in return? How about Mexico, how much have they drained from our coffers. It goes on and on. Military bases, foreign aid, billions and billions of dollars to people who do not like us anyway. When does it stop?

How about this for a simple solution. We stop supporting dictatorships, as in in Saudi Arabia. Bring our hundreds of thousands of troops back to American soil and send all the illegal and most of the legal immigrants back where they came from. Use the troops to protect our borders and ports.

I do not know why you think I'm negative on America. I love this country very much and am deeply saddened at what we're allowing to happen to our country and our society. You and I simply view the problems and solutions differently. That doesn't mean one of us loves America more than the other. What you view as negative I may view as positive and what I view as positive you may view as negative. That doesn't mean that either of us doesn't want the best for America. But there's no doubt about it, the things our government have done in the past six years have only made things worse!

[tolex42]

Written by an Australian Dentist....


To Kill an American

You probably missed this in the rush of news, but there was actually a report that someone in Pakistan had published in a newspaper, an offer of a reward to anyone who killed an American, any American.

So an Australian dentist wrote an editorial t he following day to let everyone know what an American is . So they would know when they found one. (Good one, mate!!!!)

"An American is English, or French , or Italian, Irish, German, Spanish, Polish, Russian or Greek. An American may also be Canadian, Mexican, African, Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Australian, Iranian, Asian, or Arab, or Pakistani or Afghan.

An American may also be a Comanch e, Choctaw, Cherokee, Osage, Blackfoot, Navaho, Apache, Seminole or one of the many other tribes known as native Americans.

An American is Christian, or he could be Jewish, or Buddhist, or Muslim. In fact, there are more Muslims in America than in Afghanistan . The only difference is that in America they are free to worship as each of them chooses.

An American is also free to believe in no religion. For that he will answer only to God, not to the government, or to armed thugs claiming to speak for the government and for God.

An American lives in the most prosperous land in the history of the world.

The root of that prosperity can be found in the Declaration of Independence , which recognizes the God given right of each person to the pursuit of happiness

An American is generous. Americans have helped out just about every other nat ion in the world in their time of need, never asking a thing in return

When Afghanistan was over-run by the Soviet army 20 years ago, Americans came with arms and suppl ies to enable the people to win back their country!

As of the morning of September 11, Americans had given more than any other nation to the poor in Afghanistan. Americans welcome the best of everything...the best products, the best books, the best music, the best food, the best services. But they also welcome the least.

The national symbol of America , The Statue of Liberty , welcomes your tired and your poor, the wretched refuse of your teeming shores, the homeless, tempest tossed. These in fact are the people who built America ..

Some of them were working in the Twin Towers the morning of September 11, 2001 earning a better life for their families. It's been told that the World Trade Center victims were from at least 30 different countries, cultures, and first languages, including those that aided and abetted the terrorists.

So you can try to kill an American if you must. Hitler did. So did General Tojo, and Stalin, and

Mao Tse-Tung, and other blood-thirsty tyrants in the world. But, in doing so you would just be killing yourself. Because Americans are not a particular people from a particular place. They are the embodiment of the human spirit of freedom. Everyone who holds to that spirit, everywhere, is an American.

[tolex42]

Greenspan, who wrote in his memoir that “the Iraq War is largely about oil,” said in a Washington Post interview that while securing global oil supplies was “not the administration’s motive,” he had presented the White House before the 2003 invasion with the case for why removing the then-Iraqi leader was important for the global economy.

“I was not saying that that’s the administration’s motive,” Greenspan said in the interview conducted on Saturday. “I’m just saying that if somebody asked me, ’Are we fortunate in taking out Saddam?’ I would say it was essential.”

In his new book “The Age of Turbulence: Adventures in a New World,” Greenspan wrote: “I’m saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: The Iraq war is largely about oil.”

[wormy]

I thought you left?

[dirtdobber]

he finally got his pants back from his wife the hair on her legs are long enough to keep both warm during winter months.I wonder if they pass the husbandly duties back and forth also.:eek:

[tolex42]

Iraq

There have been 4,091 coalition deaths -- 3,792 Americans, two Australians, 169 Britons, 13 Bulgarians, one Czech, seven Danes, two Dutch, two Estonians, one Fijian, one Hungarian, 33 Italians, one Kazakh, one Korean, three Latvian, 21 Poles, two Romanians, five Salvadoran, four Slovaks, 11 Spaniards, two Thai and 18 Ukrainians -- in the war in Iraq as of September 20, 2007 -------------1/20/2009

[Stick-it]

Being that there were never WMD in Iraq, nor did they attack us at WTC, our corrupt and illiterate president had absolutely no right to start a war with them. Because he chose to attack someone other than the one responsible we have effectively turned a country upside down and we need to be very careful about just leaving bush's mess where it is. Granted it was a mess to begin with, but it was not our mess. Now it is. We need to get someone in there who can get Iraq to a state where we can get our 20 year old sons and daughters home ALIVE. We need to remember also that innocent Iraqi's are dying and being maimed in genocidal numbers. We can't just leave them to die at the hands of W. Someone needs to do it right and ASAP. Thanks W.

Let's blame the next fiscally responsible pres. for the tax hikes required to pay for W's trillion dollar war. W has effectively imposed a tax hike that we haven't seen the likes of in a long time.

[tolex42]

Nope.

let's NOT blame the next "fiscally responsible Pres." for Anything.

History will show, that President Bush, was the President that FIRST understood, the START of WWIII, and made a stand.

For the preservation Of America and our way of life.
America still doesen't understand....
We're too busy, watchin American Idol, and talkin "Bring the troops home".

WWIII IS happening now.

It's just not like the other World Wars,....so, America hasen't really "got it" yet.
That's OK. Another 9-11 type "incident", in America..... just might wake America up....for a couple more years. If it's not too late.....

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,297712,00.html

You are a block head. You probably think that since Herbert Hoover was a Republican his economic policy must have been correct. You could be shown pictures of Bush with farm animals and you would still belive he is a saint. Two hundred years from now they still will be teaching in history classes, the blunder that he made by invadeing Iraq instead of concentrating on Afganistan where the terrorist really were holed up.

Now go ahead and rant with a lot of "F" words, as you usally do.

[Orgnizdlbr]

Nope.

let's NOT blame the next "fiscally responsible Pres." for Anything.

History will show, that President Bush, was the President that FIRST understood, the START of WWIII, and made a stand.

For the preservation Of America and our way of life.
America still doesen't understand....
We're too busy, watchin American Idol, and talkin "Bring the troops home".

WWIII IS happening now.

It's just not like the other World Wars,....so, America hasen't really "got it" yet.
That's OK. Another 9-11 type "incident", in America..... just might wake America up....for a couple more years. If it's not too late.....

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,297712,00.html

Here's what ive been saying from the gitgo, it was about oil.......W was goaded and guided into the war by Cheney and Rummey Swamp, he hasnt had a lucid thought since he was inaugurated for the first term.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-oped0921goldbergsep21,0,3639238.story

[Stick-it]

If it is WWIII right now, why do we have most of our troops in Iraq? It is not a world war there. It is a civil war. Why did we have to jump in like we did? Iraq had nothing to with our 9-11 "type incident" so why did we go there in the first place. Oil? To see if we could overthrow a country? We could have used the opportunity to go after the ones who killed the 3000 people not the one who pissed off our presidents daddy 10 years prior.

If we are to play WWIII then in my opinion we should do it in a way where the world won't turn on us and our own citizens will support the cause. For example, if our cause was to go after the 9-11 terrorists or all other terrorists for that matter, this country would support it. Our cause is to impose our own style of government on a country who doesn't want it. Our fearless president caused this turmoil. Saddam needed to leave, however our timing was a little off. It was time to go after the threat to the US. Not time for a personal war.

If we had a civil war in this country would we want Russia to come in with troops and start fighting here? Hell no. Why is it ok for us to do that? If it really needed to be done then it should have been a unanimous effort on the part of the leading world countries. Not just Bush and his cronies.

If this war is really worth it in the eyes of the world, then lets split the trillion dollar bill with all of them. I guess American citizens aren't the only ones who "don't get it." What stand exactly is Bush making?

If Iran is making nukes we should attack Saudi Arabia. ...Just a thought

[wormy]

History will show, that President Bush, was the President that FIRST understood, the START of WWIII, and made a stand.

I think history will show he was the dumbest President we ever had

[Stick-it]

[QUOTE=Swamprat;35309]

History will show, that President Bush, was the President that FIRST understood, the START of WWIII, and made a stand.

For the preservation Of America and our way of life.
America still doesen't understand....
We're too busy, watchin American Idol, and talkin "Bring the troops home".

WWIII IS happening now.

----------------------------------
History may show that Bush helped start WWIII. I think people are done watching American Idol and are starting to wake up. Afterall we were obviously asleep when we re-elected him.

-- If not the dumbest ever, definately the worst

[wormy]

Jimmy Carter top 10% of his class at the naval academy. Good try on changing subject. How did Bush do in school?

[CenterPointEX]

Islam, a religion of peace? This is not true in any form or fashion. The Koran, was and is the figmentation of the imagination of one Man. A man who lived by the Sword and whose motto was submit or die... That is what Islam means... If truly you read and study the Koran you understand only this. If you believe he Koran to be only a guide not containing any real truth then you could say that Islam is a peaceful religion...

Just like if you did not believe the Bible to be true, but rather truth based fiction to be used a guide... Then you could bend it to make Christianity a religion of the Sword rather than a religion of peace.

Hitler was straight up evil... Hitlers God was himself.

[Koga]

remind everyone of a fact I think is missed way too much. True these are radical muslim actions and the list of attacks is pretty much correct. What I would like to point out is where did the leaders, the ones who plan and finance all of these attacks come from. Any one care to guess ? Go back and look close. Then maybe we could focus on the right country for a while instead of ignoring them. It won't stop untill we do. Just my opinion.

Koga

[Stick-it]

I think a lot of people still realize that the extreme muslim jihad needs to be dealt with. However, we can not win that war by staying in Iraq like we are. The goal in Iraq now is to protect and train the Iraqi's until our style of government is imposed. We are still there and will be for quite a while because we can not leave them to die at each other's hands due to a can of **** we helped unleash.

It sounds to me like people are confusing two different wars. The one in Iraq, and the one against radical muslim terrorists. This is why I believe our citizens are getting fed up. We all want to ensure our security, which means dealing with the terror threat. Iraq is NOT the major terror threat to this country like we were being led to believe.

People don't want to see us lose. They want to see us win the war that is right for this country. What does the US stand to win with the war in Iraq? Aren't the Iraqi's the only ones who can win something in that war?

[Stick-it]

The "goal" in Iraq my man, is to create a "frontline", and "engage and LEARN".

AND, hopefully, create a democratic State in the middle east, in the midst of all the Islamic fundimentilasts. It's a tough goal for America.

Course, we could just pull all our troops out, let the country completely go to extremist ****....AND....then, in a few more years, when Iran takes them over.....
Just Nuke em, and be done with it.

Wait...Sorry....We couldn't do that.

America would have to wait for THEM to throw the first nuke....THEN we could retaliate.

Didn't your daddy ever tell you..."The Best Defense is a good OFFENSE"?

That certainly wasn't the goal when we went in there. Like I have said a few times already; I don't think we can pull our troops out right now with the state Bush has put Iraq in. This is sad to say the least. Why the hell didn't Bush go after the terrorists like he did Saddam? Let's not make 9-11 an excuse for Iraq.

Is it worth thousands of our kids lives just to "learn"? You say "nuke 'em all" but yet you want to leave our troops there to die? With that attitude, why don't we let Iraqi's kill themselves while we watch from under our Mission Accomplished banner.

How does this war constitute a good offense? And against what? I am offended, does that count?

[CenterPointEX]

That might be better than the verbal masturbation you engauge in Batt's... Do ya have to come off with all that "Bad Bull?"... I mean tone it down some dude... I understand you are a lineman and you speak linmanease with a passion... but have mercy on the public...

That being said, I know without a doubt the result of the situation in Iraq... The Bible propheseys that Babylon will rise again... Babylon geographicly is Iraq. Sadman Insane thought he would be the one to ressurect Babylon... Sad to say, but the culprit may be the United States of America... Anyhow Iraq/Babylon will become an international city under the direction of the U.N. Being a seat of International Power sitting in the center of the Worlds Oil reserves... It will the be the platform from which the Anti-Christ launches his final quest to rule the world. He will unite the worlds religions under one umbrella of peace... But as the Bible predicts the peace will be short lived... All Hell is gonna break loose before that final battle that never happens... This world is gonna be rocked by a multitude of natural disasters among other disasters... Then the combined armies of the antiChrist world march to destroy Isreal... Then Christ returns riding on the clouds ushering in a new age... All the world will wittness his return.... The dead in Christ will be caught first to meet him... ect. etc... Trim you Lamp...Be ready Swamp...

[Stick-it]

I am not getting pissed off at all. I was trying to use this forum for a rational discussion. No disrespect intended at all toward you or anyone else.

I do agree that we will have to be there for quite a while though.

[Meat]

Evil Bible.com is a site that I go to relax.Give it a try!Meat.

[tolex42]

Rush Limbaugh, last Wednesday went too far. He insulted our men and women in uniform, calling those who oppose the war "phony soldiers".

Of course, Rush continued his tirade Monday by denying he had said anything wrong and attacking John Murtha, who served 37 years in the Marines.

In December 2006, a poll run by the Military Times found that only 35 percent of service members approved of President Bush's handling of the war in Iraq. Would Rush consider every other Soldier, Sailor, Airman and Marine to be phony? What about General John Batiste who retired from active duty in order to speak out against this war?

Rush has the courage to sit behind a microphone and lash out at those who oppose George Bush's misadventure in Iraq -- yet when it was his time to serve, he received a deferment and has never worn a uniform.

Limbaugh's show is broadcast on Armed Forces Radio, and therefore service members around the world heard his insults. It's time for Rush to apologize.

[Orgnizdlbr]

Rush Limp**** is a disgrace.

The crap coming through the airwaves is all bull****, whether from conservative, liberal, middle of the road, its all spun and hyped to sell airtime. Its their only goal, sell airtime, make money, aint a bit of truth told on the air at all......

[tolex42]

AND, BTW...

All this bull**** from democrats is just another attempt to enact the "fairness doctrine".

Fairness doctrine my ass. I listen to what I WANT to listen to, and I don't WANT to hear the other side in a "rebuttal".

How come all your democrat, liberal Radio programs have bombed?....and have been taken off the air?

Because they are BULL****. AND, even Democrat Americans can't stomach the lies and misinformation they were trying to feed America.

This is just another liberal...moveon.org, mediamatters thrust at trying to get conservative Talk Radio off the air. Because....

They talk TRUTH.

Seriously....the American Congress... House and Senate, wastes the American Peoples time, to put up a bull**** bill, condeming a talk show host.... Even all the democrats wouldn't sign on to that...
you guys are seriously pittiful.

We'll see what America thinks...next election.

You REALLY don't understand how STUPID democrats look, with attack on Rush, do ya.......

Nope.:p


How dare that fat ass, loud mouth, draft dodger call our troops " phoney soldiers".

[Stick-it]

Rush is a bumbling idiot who is on a argument that people can see right through. Can't you be against the politics and illegitimate reasoning of the war and still support our troops. Or is it required that our troops be robots and be told what they can and can't believe in? Don't they fight so we can have freedoms like being able to have our own opinions?

We support our troops so much they actually want them to stay ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Republicans REALLY don't understand how STUPID they look when they support Bush. How dare he veto the childrens health bill because it is too "expensive." 70% of Americans want it. 2 months of his war would have paid for the bill outright. Isn't he supposed to work for us, our interests, and the policies we want? Didn't he also tell us lie after lie to start his personal war? MISSION ACCOMPLISHED??? What a corrupt jackass.

People listen to the right wing BS because they don't agree with it! People like to get their blood going and laugh at the absurd garbage. They don't get a rise on hearing the rational talk which they already believe in. Yes, they all go too far to get ratings. Even O'reilley and FOX.

Too much unfair and unbalanced FOX news.

[wormy]

My vote is for him being a clown

[tolex42]

My vote is for him being a clown


Rush or Swamprat?

[wormy]

Rush a clown
swamp is just a ____________ fill in the blank

[Stick-it]

People go to the zoo to watch monkeys throw crap at the walls, it is entertaining. Right wing talk is entertaining also.

["little beaver"]

No, People don't "Listen to Right wing radio Bull****" because they "Don't agree with it".

They listen to Rush, and Neil, because...Truth is spoken there. Otherwise...your liberal worthless Bull**** Raido Programs would still be on the air.

Well...check it out. They're NOT. WHY? Nobody listened to them, and ADVERTISERS only support Programs that are LISTENED to....

Keep talkin....Please.

WHAT'S THE ANSWER TO THE ABOVE????????????????

[wormy]

No, People don't "Listen to Right wing radio Bull****" because they "Don't agree with it". I listen to it for the laughs, they say some stupid stuff, and I do not agree with it. How can you know why I listen?


Otherwise...your liberal worthless Bull**** Raido Programs would still be on the air. They are still on the air everyday. More listeners than ever. If you would listen to both sides instead of listening to a limp****ed, draftdodging, drug addict, clown you might be able to make an opinion for youself

If you had asked a question I would give you a answer

[LostArt]

Maybe Beaver just wanted you to fill in the blanks? http://www.avowners.com/forum/smileys/smiley84.gif

:D

[wormy]

Hey swamp people must be starting to like you. No one filled in the blank. Your not getting soft are ya.

How about Ed Shultz, normal kinda guy
Randy Rhodes- she could give Rush a run for his money but will make you mad

I will look up the stats later. I have been out on my boat enjoying this hot weather. 90 degrees in Oct in Kentucky makes me kinda like global warming. I am tired and hungry. 50 years old is to old to spend the day on a seadoo

You know swamp I do listen to both kinds of radio. Both can make good points. I will listen to Beck a little, used to more but he has moved way right. Listen to Rush if I'm in the car when he is on. Might change the channel after a little while. depends on what he is talking about. Hannity can't back up his bull**** so I quit listening to him

[Orgnizdlbr]

TURN America Around.
Let's do a "Complete Turn around" here for America.

..


Well, seeing where we are today, thats a pretty good f***ing start!!

[wormy]

Really man. Maby it's time to give that **** a try. Please just make sure he puts the Middle East, and the radicals of Islam, as his FIRST priority of "makin Friends with" OK?
Considering the Saudis were the ones who attack us, it looks like we are already best friends with the radicals


The "Universal healthcare" thing....is NOT a good concept
How about the kids healthcare that just got vetoed. How many years could it have been funded if we weren't throwing money down a hole in Irag


Please don't try to take away my guns though.... That isn't going to happen. NRA is pretty good at putting money in everbodies pockets. That being said the only guns in my house are a BB and a paintball. Used to hunt, been thinking about starting again. But right now I don't have a need. Not much crime around where I live. You can leave your house unlocked all day without fear


I'm willin to watch 4 years of democrat Everything. I kinda like Ron Paul. But he doesn't have much of a chance. So I will most likely vote democrat. Hillary wanting to give 5000$ to every kid of MY money. Don't like that but it is a drop in the bucket to what is being thrown away now

I like gridlock. No one party controlling everything. Keeps them all in their place and keeps them from messing to much stuff up keeping their money bags happy

[LostArt]

That isn't going to happen. NRA is pretty good at putting money in everbodies pockets. That being said the only guns in my house are a BB and a paintball. Used to hunt, been thinking about starting again. But right now I don't have a need. Not much crime around where I live. You can leave your house unlocked all day without fear



We don't use ours either that much, but I like the fact that we can own one. Surely you are not saying we should give up this right?

And we don't keep them in the nightstand or under the pillow either. I also live in an crime free neighborhood, but I lock the doors and turn out the lights when leaving or not using. But, then my dad taught us that at an early age. Save, and don't invite trouble. At least I've tried to perfect the first. :D

[wormy]

Surely you are not saying we should give up this right?
nope, but handguns are made for killen they ain't good for nothen else

[dirtdobber]

they can have mine after they pry them out of my cold stiff fingers.guns dont kill people people kill people.:D :eek: :p

[Orgnizdlbr]

You're right.
That's the whole purpose man.

MINE are for Defense though. You want to take mine away from me?

I'd rather be "judged by 12, than carried by 6".

So, how many handguns do you own?

Protection, if someone broke into my house, I'm cutting them down with 000 buckshot, no aim and miss, just point and blow their balls off.

Oh, I almost forgot, is it legal to carry conceiled weapons in Fla?

[wormy]

MINE are for Defense though. You want to take mine away from me?
I would love to pry yours from your cold dead hands:)

[HookMan]

.................................

[tolex42]

I'm just jumping in here on the tail of things......I read some of the first posts and some of the last posts.... I dont know what I missed in the middle.

But I am neither left or right, I ***** about it all... I dont agree in the direction the war took nor where it is going. Troop reduction=bull****... just another way to put off doing the right thing and coming home.... I support the troops but I dont agree w/ what they are doing.... I dont agree w/ the US using contractors to "patrol" and for "security"... how many military personel have you seen in the airport.....NONE..... how many US contractors have you seen in the airports.... NONE..... I dont know about you guys but I want security at home FIRST!!!! If you dont have enough to get a job done , dont start the job. There is a war here at home that our highly intelligent president forgot about when he stormed Iraq (formerly known as Afganistan). 9/11 happened, I lost 343 brothers, there should have been some recourse but where is Bin Laden, why hasnt he been caught. Democrats.. Republicans ... American people, the blood of our sons, daughters, mother, fathers, brothers and sisters is on all of our hands. We as a people allowed this to happen, give me hell if yo want to to, but when it all comes down to it, its true, we allowed a war happy president to take the reigns and run. Here we are now...

My home town lost a soldier Jan 15, 2005.... SGT Jayton Patterson,USMC, I went to high school with him, played football baseball and basketball with him all through school, to me for no good reason he is dead.

This is just a rant of a 26 year old flunkie lineman... take it for what you will.


Come on 1-20-2009

[wormy]

Get it through your little pea brain THERE WAS NO CONNECTION BETWEEN 9/11 and IRAG. Most were from Saudi Arabia. IRAG is not the war on terriorism. If we would go into the tribal areas of packistan or saudi arabia then we would be fighting the war. We would not be bogged down in Irag

[Stick-it]

I also was going to reiterate the point Iraq was not a war on "terrorism". If it was/is then I KNOW us americans would support the war.

It sickens me that 9/11 is becoming or has become just an "excuse". Lets make it a "cause" for good and our own security.

I would also like to ask - If it is really a "global" war on terrorism, where the hell is our global support? Is it a "rogue" war?

I too am proud of our troops. They do everything asked of them 110%. They signed up to serve you and me. Sometimes that means sacrificing their own lives for us, they do not hesitate. This country owes them more than could ever be repaid.

Am I proud of our politics? Take a guess.

[Orgnizdlbr]

I'm really not gonna waste your time or mine wormster.

You wouldn't understand a "connection" if it kicked you between the legs.
You have no concept of global politics at all.....

You just run off at the mouth man. You are just a clueless american democrat. Believe what ya want man. Elect billary. she'll fix it all......:p

I suppose I have no concept of global politics, so indulge me, please explain where is the connection, why the invasion of Iraq on the pretense of WMA? Is it that the American people wouldnt understand the "connection" if it kicked us in the balls?

Why the deception, why the Machiavelian backchannel lies and Bull**** by Bush, Cheney, and Rummy. Why the rush to war? Why was Iraq discussed in the Whitehouse on September 12, the day after the attack? Why wasnt the real perpetrator persued and hunted down like a ****ing dog? Am I to assume that the elitist scum in the Whitehouse had to practice such duplicious deceit because the American people, after the attack on our nation, couldnt handle the ****ing truth, that we had to be lied to. Am I to assume that the elitist scum in the Whitehouse misread the wave of overwhelming patriotism that overtook the nation in one of our darkest hours and felt the overwhelming compulsion to lie to our Go**** faces in order to garner support for war. Am I to assume that the example set by the proud Firemen and Cops at the Twin Tower sight, the sacrifice they set, and the lost brothers and sisters wasnt enough impetus to convince the nation that if any burden needed to be bourn that we wouldnt have been convinced without such blatant deceit??

I aint that ****ing naive..................

So what is the connection......? Or maybe, a deeper question to ponder, what was the real go**** agenda??

I would appreciate your patience and indulgence, I will be away from the PC for a few days starting tomorow afternoon, I wont be ignoring you, honest.

I feel for whomever the next President will be, cleaning this mess is a huge undertaking.

[Orgnizdlbr]

Honestly....
I think I'll just let ya....come back later.

I see you're "fired up".:p
Answerin for other people.:D

"why the Machiavelian backchannel lies"

"Am I to assume that the elitist scum in the Whitehouse had to practice such duplicious deceit"

"Am I to assume that the elitist scum in the Whitehouse misread the wave of overwhelming patriotism that overtook the nation in one of our darkest hours "

"Elitist Scum"?

Ya know Labor. I never liked Clinton, but I never talked about that man like you democrats talk about President Bush. Hate just drips off ya'll....

You didn't use to talk like this. I always saw you as a "rational" democrat.
I see you've learned alot from the Wormster and bat****. Good for you.

See ya when ya get back.....

Wonderful president.....:(


Now he's spoutin his democrat "truth" again. When him and old teddy boy die...I just may drive up to spit on their graves

Not Clinton, but a past President non-the-less.........

[tolex42]

466days

11hours

44mimutes

[CenterPointEX]

Origionally Posted by OGB
"...after the attack on our nation, couldnt handle the ****ing truth..."Am I to assume that the elitist scum in the Whitehouse... felt the overwhelming compulsion to lie to our Go**** faces...
a deeper question to ponder, what was the real go**** agenda??"

Now you are getting some ****ing where OGB... the light is begining shine in the darkness...

War on Terrorism?... You are wise beyond your Words OGB... you would be correct in assuming that the war on "Terror" is Bull****, because "Terrorism" is not an entity that we can attack or make war on... "Terrorism" is a tactic... Not an entity. You are also correct in assuming that the public has been lied to for the reason you stated... "...they couldn't handle the truth."

You know the truth as well as I do OGB... the problem with this truth we all know is, that it is like the elephant in the room... We all know it is there, but in order not to disturb it, we pretend it isn't so. Yes sir E Bob... the ****ing world knows what the problem is... The French know what the problems is more so than others... the English know what the problem is... Bush knows the truth about what this War is, but he can not voice it because we as a nation of people have become bleeding heart left wing whimps... We would rather stick our head in the sand and pretend that Islam has not come out and said point blank!, "Our goal is to bring the world into submission to Islam. The first step in this quest is to wipe Isreal off the face of the Earth and to destroy the will of all who defend her."

The left screams so pitfully about our rights being walked on... We don't know walked on! Those who reside in Islamic countries have no rights... They are force****ed at every turn into bowing to the will of Islam. No boys and girls... we are not fighting against "TERRORISM". We are in the fight of our lives against a foe whose highest goal in life is to die in "Jihad"... Jihad... now there is a word that sets the stage... Jihad means, "My Struggle."... Hitler wrote a book called, "Mein Komph", which translated to english means, "My Struggle." Yes... like it or not... We are at War with Islam... Bush can't say that... he would be crucified for doing so. Islam is at war and terror is thier tactic... Islam will not lay down the war just because we draw back down from their training ground... Islam is all in... Just like Hitler was all in...

[Stick-it]

So... It is ok for our elected president to fight a war on our behalf as long as he doesn't tell us why he is fighting it? We are going to defeat Islam (I guess it is no longer terrorists) by staying in Iraq? It is ok to fight a war with a country when no other countrys support the cause? Britain lost a pres, and are now pulling completely out. Does this say anything? Is the world wrong and Bush and his select few are the only ones who are correct in this whole debacle?

I don't argue your points about Islam. However, Israel is not Iraq!! Islam does not justify our stay in Iraq. Why is it ok to make Islam and 9/11 a justifiable excuse for our death in Iraq. It sickens me. It makes me want to puke. Literally.

You don't think we know the terrorists are islamic? Let's go after them and not participate in an ongoing massacre against someone other than those who attacked us. We could even go after terrorists instead of fighting someone elses civil war. Oh, that's right we unleashed the sh!t so we can't leave.

KILLING IRAQI'S AND OUR AMERICAN SOLDIERS IS NOT FIGHTING ISLAM!!!!!!! But then again maybe a terrorist or two may not know we are in Iraq and walk right by us so we can shoot 'em. Then it will all be worthwhile. Right?

We are done believing the LIES!! Why doesn't your Bushie try the fu**ing truth for a change. The truth would be easier to stomach than what he is doing now. Maybe HE doesn't even know what the truth is. Afterall his excuses have changed how many times?

Please enlighten us all. I ask for a short, clear answer as to why it is acceptable to do what we do. Justify the death. Justify Iraq. None of the spin and bs rhetoric. Just specific answers. I am sick of trying to read between the lines when there is nothing there.

Saying there is a connection between 9/11 and Iraq is not enough. EXPLAIN IT. Please, for all of us. I am begging you. If you could do that, the last thing it would be is a "waste of time". Hell, if not for us, do it for our troops.

[wormy]

Saying there is a connection between 9/11 and Iraq is not enough. EXPLAIN IT. Please, for all of us. I am begging you. If you could do that, the last thing it would be is a "waste of time". Hell, if not for us, do it for our troops. Please you and swamp explain it. Tell us how we went into Irag to revenge 9/11 Hell swamp you are a global politics expert fill us in


Hitler wrote a book called somehow it does not suprise me to see you bring up Hitler. Us Democrats (I am really an independent) have move on The republicans have the aryian nation

By the way my God does not condone torture

[Stick-it]

My ass. Even the weapons inspectors said there was no evidence of WMD PRIOR to going in. Try again.

If that is a good reason and I just can't see it, it still doesn't justify the DEATH 6 years later. Just curious, how old is the average soldier who died for me and you? 20? 25? How manw Iraqi's dead? 80,000? 100,000? Does this qualify as torture?

You should be outraged!!!!! This is UNACCEPTABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, lets go Jack Bauer on the terrorists' ass. Whatever it takes to stop the death and mass suffering, i'm in.

[Orgnizdlbr]

Interesting article from Captains who served in Iraq. I'm sure there will be a counter by some who have served and have opposing views.



The Real Iraq We Knew

By 12 former Army captains
Tuesday, October 16, 2007; 12:00 AM

Today marks five years since the authorization of military force in Iraq, setting Operation Iraqi Freedom in motion. Five years on, the Iraq war is as undermanned and under-resourced as it was from the start. And, five years on, Iraq is in shambles.

As Army captains who served in Baghdad and beyond, we've seen the corruption and the sectarian division. We understand what it's like to be stretched too thin. And we know when it's time to get out.

What does Iraq look like on the ground? It's certainly far from being a modern, self-sustaining country. Many roads, bridges, schools and hospitals are in deplorable condition. Fewer people have access to drinking water or sewage systems than before the war. And Baghdad is averaging less than eight hours of electricity a day.

Iraq's institutional infrastructure, too, is sorely wanting. Even if the Iraqis wanted to work together and accept the national identity foisted upon them in 1920s, the ministries do not have enough trained administrators or technicians to coordinate themselves. At the local level, most communities are still controlled by the same autocratic sheiks that ruled under Saddam. There is no reliable postal system. No effective banking system. No registration system to monitor the population and its needs.

The inability to govern is exacerbated at all levels by widespread corruption. Transparency International ranks Iraq as one of the most corrupt countries in the world. And, indeed, many of us witnessed the exploitation of U.S. tax dollars by Iraqi officials and military officers. Sabotage and graft have had a particularly deleterious impact on Iraq's oil industry, which still fails to produce the revenue that Pentagon war planners hoped would pay for Iraq's reconstruction. Yet holding people accountable has proved difficult. The first commissioner of a panel charged with preventing and investigating corruption resigned last month, citing pressure from the government and threats on his life.

Against this backdrop, the U.S. military has been trying in vain to hold the country together. Even with "the surge," we simply do not have enough soldiers and marines to meet the professed goals of clearing areas from insurgent control, holding them securely and building sustainable institutions. Though temporary reinforcing operations in places like Fallujah, An Najaf, Tal Afar, and now Baghdad may brief well on PowerPoint presentations, in practice they just push insurgents to another spot on the map and often strengthen the insurgents' cause by harassing locals to a point of swayed allegiances. Millions of Iraqis correctly recognize these actions for what they are and vote with their feet -- moving within Iraq or leaving the country entirely. Still, our colonels and generals keep holding on to flawed concepts.

U.S. forces, responsible for too many objectives and too much "battle space," are vulnerable targets. The sad inevitability of a protracted draw-down is further escalation of attacks -- on U.S. troops, civilian leaders and advisory teams. They would also no doubt get caught in the crossfire of the imminent Iraqi civil war.

Iraqi security forces would not be able to salvage the situation. Even if all the Iraqi military and police were properly trained, equipped and truly committed, their 346,000 personnel would be too few. As it is, Iraqi soldiers quit at will. The police are effectively controlled by militias. And, again, corruption is debilitating. U.S. tax dollars enrich self-serving generals and support the very elements that will battle each other after we're gone.

This is Operation Iraqi Freedom and the reality we experienced. This is what we tried to communicate up the chain of command. This is either what did not get passed on to our civilian leadership or what our civilian leaders chose to ignore. While our generals pursue a strategy dependent on peace breaking out, the Iraqis prepare for their war -- and our servicemen and women, and their families, continue to suffer.

There is one way we might be able to succeed in Iraq. To continue an operation of this intensity and duration, we would have to abandon our volunteer military for compulsory service. Short of that, our best option is to leave Iraq immediately. A scaled withdrawal will not prevent a civil war, and it will spend more blood and treasure on a losing proposition.

America, it has been five years. It's time to make a choice.

This column was written by 12 former Army captains: Jason Blindauer served in Babil and Baghdad in 2003 and 2005. Elizabeth Bostwick served in Salah Ad Din and An Najaf in 2004. Former Capt. Jeffrey Bouldin served in Al Anbar, Baghdad and Ninevah in 2006. Former Capt. Jason Bugajski served in Diyala in 2004. Former Capt. Anton Kemps served in Babil and Baghdad in 2003 and 2005. Former Capt. Kristy (Luken) McCormick served in Ninevah in 2003. Former Capt. Luis Carlos Montalván served in Anbar, Baghdad and Nineveh in 2003 and 2005. Former Capt. William Murphy served in Babil and Baghdad in 2003 and 2005. Former Capt. Josh Rizzo served in Baghdad in 2006. Former Capt. William "Jamie" Ruehl served in Nineveh in 2004. Former Capt. Gregg Tharp served in Babil and Baghdad in 2003 and 2005. Former Capt. Gary Williams served in Baghdad in, 2003.

[CenterPointEX]

So... We are going to defeat Islam (I guess it is no longer terrorists) by staying in Iraq? It is ok to fight a war with a country when no other countrys support the cause?...Is the world wrong and Bush and his select few are the only ones who are correct in this whole debacle?

You don't think we know the terrorists are islamic? Let's go after them and not participate in an ongoing massacre against someone other than those who attacked us. We could even go after terrorists instead of fighting someone elses civil war.

KILLING IRAQI'S AND OUR AMERICAN SOLDIERS IS NOT FIGHTING ISLAM!!!!!!! But then again maybe a terrorist or two may not know we are in Iraq and walk right by us so we can shoot 'em.

...Why doesn't your Bushie try the fu**ing truth for a change? The truth would be easier to stomach than what he is doing now.

...Please enlighten us all. I ask for a short, clear answer as to why it is acceptable to do what we do...

Like OGB said... The public can not handle the truth... that's the bottem line... Yes... all of Islam knows we are in Iraq... they are lineing up in droves to go there and die in Jihad... a noble goal for all Muslims. If we leave Iraq... they will not lay down the War... the current president of Iran has stated under no uncertain terms that he is in the process of and he will build a bomb... and if he gets it... he will blow Isreal off the face of the earth... He has stated this publicly to the cheers of the people in the streets...

No, we will not stop Islam by staying in Iraq... but because we are in Iraq, we can put our thumb on them any time we like... The fight will remain on Arab soil because Muslims know they don't have to travel very far to die in Jihad... If we leave Iraq... it will become a safe haven for them to train suicide bombers to export to the United States... So my friend... either the battle gets fought on the streets of Bagdad... or on the streets of New York... In Bagdad it will be carried out by professional soldiers... In New York... it won't be soldiers who die... We are in Iraq to contain Islam to killing themselves...

The European countries have been over run by Islam... They have been over run by Islam because they have cast God aside... Nature abhors a vacume and Islam is filling it in Europe... that is why the Europeans have their hands tied... they are bound by the Muslims in their streets... That is why they are pulling out... Islam has a foot hold... when they take over no one will have any rights in those countries... There is no such thing as a free Muslim country... Cause "Free Muslim" is an oxy moron... Muslims are a subject to the Sword of Mohammed... They by definition must submit or die... and that is their desire for each of us also..

[dirtdobber]

I do not follow the politics to much but do have a ? if you remove the head the body will die is this not correct. so I guess the ? is where in the hell is the head.:confused:

[CenterPointEX]

If this were a conventional war Dirt Dobber... we would use conventional weapons and strike at the head... In this question you have hit the nail on the proverbial head. For we battle not against the malice of men but rather the scourge of Hell itself... Satan is the father of all lies... He at every oppertunity mimmicks the institutions of God luring in those who do not know him... We fight the battle on two fronts Dirt Dobber... It is a physical battle yes... but more than that it is a spiritual battle for the souls of men. The head of the enemy?... Satan himself... but we have a promise in Genisis 3 that was fulfilled in Christs finished work on the cross... That the head of the enemy would be crushed... If your heart can not see past this physical world Dirt Dobber... then I understand your confusion...

[PA BEN]

Ephesians 6
10Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might.

11Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.

12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.

13Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.

[dirtdobber]

now lets see if you are a GOD fearing soul and you believe in the word of our savior JESUS CHRIST then this war we are fighting should be the least of your worrys correct. or am I missing something here? because for me I am a believer not any paticular religion but in what the BIBLE teaches us for me the church has become a money making orginization JESUS preached from a rock not a house. everyone says come to GODS house we are in GODS house every moment our hearts beats so why CHURCHES for the gossip of he/she did this and that this as you say CP. is the devils work. personally we should pull out of this war and take the money we are wasting and clean up our own backyard. there are still homless mothers with children living on the streets (not on drugs) but strugling to make it. we should clean up our country before trying to clean up others. yes I know they started it but bomb the hell out of them then come home and take care of our yard!!!!:D

[CenterPointEX]

Preview http://ww3.powerlineman.com/lforum/images/icons/icon1.gif
Quote:


2:33 And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people.
2:34 And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain: 2:35 Only the cattle we took for a prey unto ourselves, and the spoil of the cities which we took.

Yes, quite tolerant.....one of many verses in the "good Book" that speaks to intolerance...... This wouldnt be an example of killing "non-believers" now would it CP??
!You will have to do better than that OGB, how did you go about finding that passage anyway... did you google God kills? If you read the passage... then you know that the folks that got smote were folks who attacked the Isrealites... The Isrealites were just passing thru and some folks with hard hearts came... just like Hitler and Aberjenadad... to wipe the people Isreal off the earth... That was the biggest mistake they ever made... It turned out bad for them just as it did with Hitler and will with Hamas... What do you do with a family of Mansons, Hitlers and Sadams OGB... do you pander to them... humor them... or do you release society for their evils? It was not about being intolerant... it was about protecting freedom... making room for tolerance... There was no tolerance in that group of folks who attacked Isreal... If there were their people would have survived...

[CHICAGO HAND.]

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/Column2.aspx?UrlTitle=my_choice&ns=SgtSethConner&dt=02/11/2008&page=full&comments=true&voted=5&submitted=trued5af678a-c764-4858-9c00-cb51ceb4292c

[Orgnizdlbr]

You will have to do better than that OGB, how did you go about finding that passage anyway... did you google God kills? If you read the passage... then you know that the folks that got smote were folks who attacked the Isrealites... The Isrealites were just passing thru and some folks with hard hearts came... just like Hitler and Aberjenadad... to wipe the people Isreal off the earth... That was the biggest mistake they ever made... It turned out bad for them just as it did with Hitler and will with Hamas... What do you do with a family of Mansons, Hitlers and Sadams OGB... do you pander to them... humor them... or do you release society for their evils? It was not about being intolerant... it was about protecting freedom... making room for tolerance... There was no tolerance in that group of folks who attacked Isreal... If there were their people would have survived...

I see, you condone the killing of children.....interesting.

[CenterPointEX]

No... I don't condone the killing of children... because I am not God. If I had the forsight of God then yes... maybe I would... Case in Point... Hitler... If I had the oppertunity to exicute him at the age of five... knowing what I now know about him... yes... But since I am not God then I could not have made that decision. Do children die? Yes... does God allow this to happen... yes... but you see OGB... even though they die... yet they live... in Heaven with God... or in Hell... apart from him.

[PA BEN]

The endless war continues. Nine more dead American soldiers this weekend. 99 so far in the month of April.

We have not gained more security for ourselves or liberty for the Iraqis. All we have gained is 99 more dead soldiers, 99 more grieving families, more widows and children without mothers or fathers.

If you read my previous posts you know my politics. But let's put politics aside for now and let us all of us work for some sort of solution to end this endless war.

This weekend I heard people talk about the football draft, golf, fishing, spring turkey hunting, planting flowers, mowing the lawn, etc. but no one talks about the war because it is too unpleasant of a topic. Americans, we need to start a dialogue about the American soldiers that are dieing every day in Iraq. When you go to work tomorrow start a conversation with your fellow crew members about the war. Talk to your family about it over the dinner table, in the coffee shop to other customers, where ever and whenever you come in contact with people, bring up the subject.

American citizens must get involved and find a way to end the endless war! Set your politics aside, what ever they may be and let us work together to find a way to end the war that is costing so many American lives.

Where are we at now?:rolleyes:

[returntotheeve]

3973 American casualties. Swamp is trying to have as many forum posts. 135 self inflicted deaths. 29080 wounded. 1808 days. According to McCain, 365 days x 100 years=

[topgroove]

I guess we'll find out in november if the american people are sick of this war.

[PA BEN]

You can say what you want about the war, Al Qaeda is in Iraq and the fact is, "we are at war with Al Qaeda". This isn't Vietnam, we don't have a draft, we have an all volunteer military. Fight them over there and not here. When I joined the "Volunteer Military" I knew there was a chance I might have to go to war. When Iran took the US hostages, I knew we were going in, But Jimmy boy didn't have the balls and now Iran has no respect for us.:(

[mainline]

This war isn't really about terrorism. It is about energy security, whether right or wrong we need a stable middle east. We get the majority of the fuel that drives our economy from there. Whether oil or LNG they hold the key. So everything we do to destabilize the order of things there hurts us. Why do you think we are paying 100+ dollars a barrel. So if we really want to accomplish our real goals we should get either get out so we stop pissing off the arabs and the rest of the world, or get serious admit our reasons for being there and start stomping the sh*& out of all of the countries that we have allowed to hold us hostage. Half measures don't work, and if we do the hand of God routine we had better be prepared to fight a world war for the resources. Either way we need to make a decision because what we are doing is a waste of time. A conventional militeary will never beat terrorism, but car bombs and targeted assasinations will. Find the people involved kill them, kill their families,their pets, their relatives, their villages. Eventually the cost of terrorism will become so high that the people they are supposedly fighting for will get rid of them on their own. Do this while at the same time freeing us from using fossil fuels to power our economy by investing in alternatives and we can solve these problems. Anyone looking for a good read look up the End of Oil by Paul Roberts. It is a scary eye opener. God help us because GW isn't.

[PA BEN]

And a cut and run Democrat is starting a bill to raze the fuel tax by .50 cents a gl. to help people not use to much fuel. These people who have a silver spoon in there mouth have no clue about us working people who have family's and homes to support.:mad:

[CenterPointEX]

You can say what you want about the war, Al Qaeda is in Iraq and the fact is, "we are at war with Al Qaeda". This isn't Vietnam, we don't have a draft, we have an all volunteer military. Fight them over there and not here. When I joined the "Volunteer Military" I knew there was a chance I might have to go to war. When Iran took the US hostages, I knew we were going in, But Jimmy boy didn't have the balls and now Iran has no respect for us.:(Speaking of Iran... they are next in line to attain nukes... They as Pa stated have snubbed their noses at any form or nuclear compliance... Their president Abumadinajab or what ever the hell his name is has all but stated he is at war with the US and Isreal... Ladies and Gentlemen... I have been proclaiming for a long time that OPEC... left unchecked...anytime it wants to... can bring America to it's knees. This country has a 3 day supply of food... always on the move in planes, trains, and automobiles... The energy source used to produce and move food to market used to be Labor... It is now diesel... In the last two years Diesel has gone up fifty percent... Has your paycheck gone up fifty percent?... Something has to give... They got the oil... we depend on it... If we don't get their oil... We began to starve and there is anarachy in the streets... We can nor will we take our hands off the throats of the Muslim extremeists who are homesteading our lifeblood... OIL!... Until we come up with another way to propel farm impliments... we have no choice. This sh@t is scary... this Sh@t is real... If you vote for the cut and runners in this next election... We will be begin to drown in the Sh@t...

[CenterPointEX]

This war isn't really about terrorism. It is about energy security, whether right or wrong we need a stable middle east. We get the majority of the fuel that drives our economy from there. Whether oil or LNG they hold the key. So everything we do to destabilize the order of things there hurts us. Why do you think we are paying 100+ dollars a barrel. So if we really want to accomplish our real goals we should get either get out so we stop pissing off the arabs and the rest of the world, or get serious admit our reasons for being there and start stomping the sh*& out of all of the countries that we have allowed to hold us hostage. Half measures don't work, and if we do the hand of God routine we had better be prepared to fight a world war for the resources. Either way we need to make a decision because what we are doing is a waste of time. A conventional militeary will never beat terrorism, but car bombs and targeted assasinations will. Find the people involved kill them, kill their families,their pets, their relatives, their villages. Eventually the cost of terrorism will become so high that the people they are supposedly fighting for will get rid of them on their own. Do this while at the same time freeing us from using fossil fuels to power our economy by investing in alternatives and we can solve these problems. Anyone looking for a good read look up the End of Oil by Paul Roberts. It is a scary eye opener. God help us because GW isn't. Who out there can help us? Obama Hussien?

[wormy]

Speaking of Iran... they are next in line to attain nukes... They as Pa stated have snubbed their noses at any form or nuclear compliance..

Not according to the US defense department. Rush and hannity say yes defense department says no

[CenterPointEX]

“Iran is ready to transfer nuclear know-how to the
Islamic countries due to their need.”

Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury,”

“As the Imam said, Israel ( and it's protectors) must be wiped off the map,”

.................................................. .............................................Maham oud Ahmadinejad


Mass demonstrations organized by the state were held throughout Iran on Saturday as the nation commemorated the 27th anniversary of the revolution that established the Islamic Republic in Iran.

According to state media, hundreds of thousands of people came into the streets to show their solidarity with the government over pursuing the country's nuclear programmes and voice their protest against publication of cartoons deemed insulting to the Prophet Mohammed.

While chanting "Death to America", "Death of Israel" and "Nuclear energy is our undisputable right", the crowd walked toward the Azadi (Freedom) Square in Tehran where Ahmadinejad held his annual speech.
In his speech the Iranian president warned that in case of harsh measures against Tehran over its controversial nuclear programme, the country would revise its commitment toward the Nuclear Non- Proliferation Treaty (NPT).

Iran has the same track record as Hitler, who assured neighboring nations not to worry... for his fight was not with them... as he broke his word nation by nation, the sat passivly watching those next to them fall to Hitlers Machine...

[topgroove]

sounds like a good reason to invade that nation too. At this rate we truly will have an army of one. I always thought that was a slogan but I guess its a goal.

[CenterPointEX]

The undisputed goal of Islam is one World Govt. under the Islamic Flag... The undeniable method of persuasion employed by Muhammad and subsequent power brokers in Islamic Jihad is "Submit or Die!", Muhammad advanced Islam by the Sword... Islam was checked by the Crusades...
....The Crusaders advanced the goal of checking Islamic hostile aggression beyond it's original intent as they morphed from a band of Crusaders, to a band of marauding rape and pillagers...

Islam on the other hand did not morph... They were from the onset killers advancing Islam by the Sword... It is their battle cry straight from the Koran... submit or die... This was the nature of Muhammad and it is the nature of those who truly follow the Spirit of the Koran. There are Muslims who don't hold to a strict reading of the Koran... These sects have made up their own rules and thrown out the teachings of Muhammad... But these are anomalies and not the rule.

[dirtdobber]

How about we nuke the *******s before they nuke us.well we know that will not happen our bleedin heart liberals will just freak. to answer one of your ?s you say come up with an alternative for farm implements grab a grubbin hoe and lets get back to how this COUNTRY GOT STARTED IN THE FIRST PLACE. they sure as hell did not have diesel motors then just mules and soar backs.all in the name of progress we can atribute this entire crap to our own lazy ways and dependecies!!!!!!:eek:

[CenterPointEX]

We, can't nuke em DD... If we nuke em, we make the oil fields radio active... Our only option is to sit on the oil wells... and shoot anyone who comes and tires to close the valves... Shooting advancing trouble makers requires ground troops keeping guard... Wanna guess who at this very hour is guarding the valves... Hillary and Obama want to outsource the guarding of the valves to forigeners... specificly Muslims? Muslims who hate America and want to see it wiped along with Israel... OFF THE MAP! The Arabs on the other hand... are using mules and grub hoes... If they nuke the oil fields... They survive... and we die... We die cause... a man is 72 hours away from killing to feed his family, even if we hand out grub hoes... the time lapse between when we hand out the hoes and start eating is too long... What are a million well fair recepiants in the city of Houston going to eat in the interum...? an empty bucket that comes up on a rope?

[dirtdobber]

and in my humble opinion we are our own worst enemies.all of this for the all mighty $. I say we as a nation shut down for 1 solid week no vehicles will be started no gas consumption what so ever (or fuel) if we stand as a whole we will win. but our country has become for a lack of a better way to put it lets see how i can get something for nothing by screwin someone out of theres. the U.S.A. use to stand tall now it seems the gov. just wants to be the peace maker.I say leave it the hell alone GOD will sort them out. shoot now ask ?s later!!!

[CenterPointEX]

and in my humble opinion we are our own worst enemies.all of this for the all mighty $. I say we as a nation shut down for 1 solid week no vehicles will be started no gas consumption what so ever (or fuel) if we stand as a whole we will win. !!!
You may be on to something there DirtDobber... How about we chose the next Holiday weekend and declare it no Fuel Burn, No Comsumption of Chinese goods for 3 days! We launch an email campain right here, right now to inform Americans about our plan... What is the next major holiday?

[tolex42]

The Endless War goes on and on and on.......

George Bush sold us the surge as a means to give the Iraqis the time they needed to achieve political accommodation. So where is that political accommodation now?

The surge hasn't succeeded in promoting political accommodation. Iraqi violence stems from a badly fractionated society stressed by tribal and sectarian rivalries and the struggle for political power, encouraged and supported by outside powers.

That's not the fault of our troops, who have performed admirably -- it's because of the flawed strategy from George Bush and John McCain. And now Bush and McCain continue to ask our soldiers to sacrifice in the pursuit of their failed strategy, while refusing to support the new GI Bill, legislation providing our returning troops with full educational benefits.

1-20-09

[Orgnizdlbr]

The Endless War goes on and on and on.......

George Bush sold us the surge as a means to give the Iraqis the time they needed to achieve political accommodation. So where is that political accommodation now?

The surge hasn't succeeded in promoting political accommodation. Iraqi violence stems from a badly fractionated society stressed by tribal and sectarian rivalries and the struggle for political power, encouraged and supported by outside powers.

That's not the fault of our troops, who have performed admirably -- it's because of the flawed strategy from George Bush and John McCain. And now Bush and McCain continue to ask our soldiers to sacrifice in the pursuit of their failed strategy, while refusing to support the new GI Bill, legislation providing our returning troops with full educational benefits.

1-20-09


Quite the dichotomy isnt it? Send them in harms way, cast those of us who see the war as a blunder of monumental proportions as being somehow, someway unpatriotic and against our troops, and when they get home and they get out, they drop them like a used condom. Sadly, it took private money to build a state of the art facility to care for our servicemen and women in a manner that heros should be cared for.

Rumsfeldt, Chaney, Pearle, and Wolfowitz have much on their concience.......I hope they have nightmares the rest of their lives........

[tolex42]

Nineteen troops killed in Iraq in the last week.

Over four thousand thus far.

Three hundred civilian Iraqis killed last week, fifteen hundred injured.

Four thousand dead troops since we went in to get the none existant WMD.

Tell me please, WHAT IS OUR MISSION IN IRAQ TODAY?


1-20-09

[CenterPointEX]

Same as it has always been... to keep Americans from being subject to the Arabs...

[dirtdobber]

as I said we are our own worst enemies we have them here on this board as you can see. the answer to the looters is in the second amendment what would we need the others for if we all stayed home.for those with medical needs I can see the need in this but all others are just S.O.L. what state is it that has the saying LIVE FREE OR DIE looks like we all are going to DIE sorry!!!!!:mad:

[wormy]

Same as it has always been... to keep Americans from being subject to the Arabs...

Wow I guess I was wrong. I thought it was because they had wmd's. Isn't that what we were told?

[CenterPointEX]

Wormy, in your opinion... What do you think would happen if we let the Muslims build a World Class Army, with a World Class Arsenal that included Nukes?.... Do you in your wildest dreams see a scenario in which the Muslim people...;whose greatest goal in life is to blow themselves up in Jihad, suddely bringing peace to the World?... Simply because they now have the power to Blow Israel off the face of the earth with the flick of a switch?... Their Motto/Marching Order/ reason for existance... is.... "Submit or Die!" This is how Islam was and is advanced... If we do not respond to it... and meet it at its shores... We will like France... meet it on our own shores... Bridget Bardot was meek right and salutory in her comments... She now faces loss of Liberty for making them?...

How many lives is the Liberty and Freedom of a Nation Worth?

[Stick-it]

That is all fine and great. Lets go after the crazy Jihadists, don't just pick any country and invade it because they have oil or because they pissed off daddy. If someone seriously believes we are in Iraq to fight the 9/11 terrorists they have got to be one of the most gullible sheep out there.

WAKE UP!!! We are dying. And for what?

If the cause was worthy and noble there would be support for the war. Guaranteed. The fact is nobody is really sure why we are even dying over there in the first place. If there was a good concrete reason then wouldn't we all know it?

The fact that 75% of this country has to ask why we are even there should at least raise an eyebrow. Shouldn't it? Are 75% of us really wrong? Why can't we get a clear answer? Maybe because the reasons have changed about 50 times.

I do agree that we can't cut and run now because of what we are responsible for. Just admit we fu(ked up from the start. Be honest for ****s sake.

[CenterPointEX]

You have a Point on the 75% thing... I bet ya money 75% of those who cast votes in the last election had no Idea what the agenda or voting recorcords were of the Canadate they voted for...

I bet ya 75% of the voters don't know that Obama Lama Ding Dong is all about turning over US Soverienty to the World Courts...

[dirtdobber]

will the gov,not stop selling our oil to other countrys or at least raise the prices to counter the cost for us oh thats correct george has his hand in the cookie jar. just dont make no **** sense at all. we as AMERICAN CITIZENS have let the government screw us for so long we cant fix the problem. we need to unite once again as before (boston tea party) maybe somebody will take notice that the public is sick and tired of the ****!!!!!!:eek:

[wormy]

**** man...
Go off in a corner, and play with yourself....or...
Get real with the world we live in.

That gave you a thrill telling me that didn't it Swamp. Your one of those pervert types that like to think about guys playing with the privates. You related to the other Repub who was reaching under the bathroom door?

You are sick.

Have you always liked guys?

[wormy]

How many lives is the Liberty and Freedom of a Nation Worth?

The Irag war has ZERO to do with the fight on terror. ZERO

Before I answer your question, you need to answer mine. Did we go to Irag because they had WMD? Simple yes or no

[duckhunter]

I'll answer that, YES. And the facts are now that most other countries believed, as we did that there were WMDs. We did not find what everyone believed we would, however, since that time we have found evidence of their use.

[duckhunter]

16 Gun Deaths in Chicago this past weekend! We have lost Chicago. It is time to pull out! How many more must die trying to keep wind from the Windy City all to ourselves. The Democrats have controlled Chicago and "Big Wind" for decades. It is time to accept that others should have the Bears, Bulls, and Cubs. Let the Chicago natives have their city. It is time to move on.

[duckhunter]

I wonder what it would take to find out how many Liberal, crying folks own Halliburton stcoks in their 401k and retirement accounts? You IDIOTS that think our President and Vice-President have anything to do with the price of petroleum need to go back to Jr. High Economics.

Why not blame any elected official from a corn producing state or with any ties to farming for the price of all grains and other food products for sky rocketing. It is supply and demand that is effecting the cost of petroleum. If President Bush could do anything about the price of fuel he would do it to create legacy.

[1sully]

I'll answer that, YES. And the facts are now that most other countries believed, as we did that there were WMDs. We did not find what everyone believed we would, however, since that time we have found evidence of their use.


On December 16, 1998, Bill Clinton ordered a strike "to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs, and its military capacity to threaten their neighbors. Their purpose is to protect the national interests of the United States..." February 17, 1998, Bill Clinton: "Saddam's son-in-law and the chief organizer of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program, defected to Jordan." Here are just some of the things this defection forced Iraq to admit, as cited by Clinton: "An offensive biological warfare capability, notably 5,000 gallons of botulinum...2,000 gallons of anthrax, 25 biological-filled scud warheads, and 157 aerial bombs."

In President Bush's January 28, 2003 State of the Union he specifically cited the information gathered by the United Nations, the International Atomic Energy Agency and Bill Clinton as a basis for his conclusion that Iraq did indeed have weapons of mass destruction. In my view, Saddam either hid them or destroyed them prior to the end of months of diplomacy and dithering with the UN. Maybe he shipped them out of the country - perhaps to Syria's Bekáa Valley. So if you conclude that Bush, Powell, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and Cheney lied, you have to add all these other folks into the list.

A letter to the pres. In 98.

[duckhunter]

Give me a break, the FBI? Won't we have to wait until there is a Democrat President because after all, this is Bush's FBI and they will only do what he wants. Oops, youre supposed to say that.

Bill O"Reilley is not a Republican, listen to his show for a whole week, he is equally critical of everyone and every side. Even if he disagrees with the President now, he is no Buch hater.

[duckhunter]

Whatever your politics, however you lean, however you feel about the current administration, this report should open some eyes.

Military losses, 1980 through 2006 (http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL32492.pdf)

As tragic as the loss of any member of the US Armed Forces is, consider the following statistics:

The annual fatalities of military members while actively serving in the armed forces from 1980 through 2006:


1980 ......... 2,392 (Carter Year)
1981 .......... 2,380 (Reagan Year)
1984 .......... 1,999 (Reagan Year)
1988 .......... 1,819 (Reagan Year)
1989 .......... 1,636 (George H W Year)
1990 ......... 1,508 (George H W Year)
1991 .......... 1,787 (George H W Year)
1992 .......... 1,293 (George H W Year)
1993 .......... 1,213 (Clinton Year)
1994 .......... 1,075 (Clinton Year)
1995 ......... 2,465 (Clinton Year)
1996 .......... 2,318 (Clinton Year)

1997 ............ 817 (Clinton Year)
1998 .......... 2,252 (Clinton Year)
1999 .......... 1,984 (Clinton Year)
2000 ..........1,983 (Clinton Year)
2001 ............. 890(George W Year)
2002 .......... 1,007 (George W Year)
2003 .......... 1,410 (George W Year)
2004 .......... 1,887 (George W Year)

2005 ............ 919 (George W Year)
2006.............. 920 (George W Year)
2007............899 (George W Year)

Clinton years (1993-2000): 14,000 deaths

George W years (200 1 -2006): 7,932 deaths

If you are surprised when you look at these figures, so was I. These figures mean that the loss from the two latest conflicts in the Middle East are LESS than the loss of military personnel during Bill Clinton's presidency; when America wasn't even involved in a war!

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[tolex42]

Whatever your politics, however you lean, however you feel about the current administration, this report should open some eyes.

Military losses, 1980 through 2006 (http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL32492.pdf)

As tragic as the loss of any member of the US Armed Forces is, consider the following statistics:

The annual fatalities of military members while actively serving in the armed forces from 1980 through 2006:


1980 ......... 2,392 (Carter Year)
1981 .......... 2,380 (Reagan Year)
1984 .......... 1,999 (Reagan Year)
1988 .......... 1,819 (Reagan Year)
1989 .......... 1,636 (George H W Year)
1990 ......... 1,508 (George H W Year)
1991 .......... 1,787 (George H W Year)
1992 .......... 1,293 (George H W Year)
1993 .......... 1,213 (Clinton Year)
1994 .......... 1,075 (Clinton Year)
1995 ......... 2,465 (Clinton Year)
1996 .......... 2,318 (Clinton Year)

1997 ............ 817 (Clinton Year)
1998 .......... 2,252 (Clinton Year)
1999 .......... 1,984 (Clinton Year)
2000 ..........1,983 (Clinton Year)
2001 ............. 890(George W Year)
2002 .......... 1,007 (George W Year)
2003 .......... 1,410 (George W Year)
2004 .......... 1,887 (George W Year)

2005 ............ 919 (George W Year)
2006.............. 920 (George W Year)
2007............899 (George W Year)

Clinton years (1993-2000): 14,000 deaths

George W years (200 1 -2006): 7,932 deaths

If you are surprised when you look at these figures, so was I. These figures mean that the loss from the two latest conflicts in the Middle East are LESS than the loss of military personnel during Bill Clinton's presidency; when America wasn't even involved in a war!

I would like to know where these military personel were lost. It wasn't Bosnia and it wasn't Hati, where was it? I would like to see some documentation on these figures.

I can't imagine the numbers for Geoge H.W. Bush are correct either. If my recollection is correct, only 18 men were lost in Kuwait!

[returntotheeve]

Comeon Duck!!

When are democrats ever interested in Facts? :p:rolleyes:

Well if I'm reading right the web site is actually pointing out that there's an email going around with faulty info and the original post is correcting it, but I only had 2 minutes to look at the site. I'll be back to read more after I take the kid to baseball. I wanna make sure I have my facts strait. Or am I wrong?

[wormy]

are democrats ever interested in Facts?

Swimpy are you sure you want to stand on these FACTS? Better think really hard.

Are these Republican facts?????

[wtdoor67]

Yes they're Republican facts. All these statistics are so readily available from your libary or computer, I don't know why anyone would bother posting such crap.

By the way I heard GW was a devil worshiper and he involved his children in Satanic rites. Pass it on.

[returntotheeve]

Go to the website. It clearly states that it is trying to correct an inaccurate email going around with faulty info, but since that doesn't fit into your agenda... By the way you have a habit of speaking out of both sides of your mouth . One post is all about forget about bush, lame duck, his crimes are all past tense, but then you go on about a "conflict" from thirtythree years ago. I would never trivialize either issue but you use these in trivial ways. Very un-American.

[returntotheeve]

No, what I said, is How long ya gonna beat a dead horse? Bush has happened. Get over it.

There's nothing left to be done about it.

"Crimes"? What "Crimes". Crimes in your terminology maby.
AND, guess what....America voted him in for a second term. So deal with THAT too.

You trivialize yourself by even postin the **** you just posted. Vietnam was...according to all the papers I ever read...a WAR. Not a "conflict"... a War for Nothing, that killed 52,000 Americans. Care to tell me what that democrat inspired War was about? What. Hell, the french had been "playin in nam" for years, and finally just said "screw it" and went home.

I'll tell ya what's "Trivial" returntowhereeverthehell...."I would never trivialize either issue"....
well, ya just did, by not sayin a **** thing about either one.

I lost 6 friends in vietnam. And my ass was 4F. Don't talk Trivial to me. You been to the WALL? How old is your "Handsome" ass anyway. Go look in the mirror again. THAT's an Un-American.

You trivialize issues by downplaying the severity of this administration and how bush is over. Your get over it attitude is the problem. Nam was a disgrace and so is this presidency and I don't take either lightly. 52,000 is too big a number to downplay and believe me I won't forget it either. Korea Nam Iraq all questionable. "Conflict" is used because thats what our govt uses. If that wasn't a war I don't know what would be. I feel for your loss and only hope no one else loses friends or family to wars under questionable circumstances. Go to the Wall? No haven't been to D.C. I hope that when someone goes to the Wall they think about these wars. I also don't visit my relatives graves,though I always think about them and how they died and what I can learn from them. I learned not to smoke.I learned not to drink.I learned to exercise. How about we stop fighting imagined enemies and then we won't have real casualties. Voted in twice? We've all regretted things we've done, but 70+% of America is waking up with coyote ugly. They're biting their arms off to get away from bush. I didn't vote for him twice and I'm very proud of that. Where do you get the impression I'm so handsome? You should go to bed you sound like your drunk typing. 1120 at night, get some sleep.

[duckhunter]

Hang on there returntoeve, I posted it. I did not run it through SNOPES, it may not be true. I'll admit it. It would be the first time someone passed something along on the internet that wasn't neccesarilly true, right?

You HATE BUSh people need to really look at yourselves. What are you going to do with the next President if it happens to be McCain. Are you going to hate him to? Will it be some right-wing conspiracy that gets him elected? Are you starting the hate thoughts already?

I regret putting the post out there without checking it out. I don't normally do it. If it is indeed true, you won't believe it anyway.

[wtdoor67]

Hang on there returntoeve, I posted it. I did not run it through SNOPES, it may not be true. I'll admit it. It would be the first time someone passed something along on the internet that wasn't neccesarilly true, right?

You HATE BUSh people need to really look at yourselves. What are you going to do with the next President if it happens to be McCain. Are you going to hate him to? Will it be some right-wing conspiracy that gets him elected? Are you starting the hate thoughts already?

I regret putting the post out there without checking it out. I don't normally do it. If it is indeed true, you won't believe it anyway.

All the stats I've looked at only give about 500 or so servicepeople killed from 1982 thru Bosnia in 1995. The largest amount was the ones killed in Beirut and most of them were the Marines killed in the barracks. That was during Reagans tenure. I think the number given was a total of 256 from 1982 to 1984.

[returntotheeve]

Hang on there returntoeve, I posted it. I did not run it through SNOPES, it may not be true. I'll admit it. It would be the first time someone passed something along on the internet that wasn't neccesarilly true, right?

You HATE BUSh people need to really look at yourselves. What are you going to do with the next President if it happens to be McCain. Are you going to hate him to? Will it be some right-wing conspiracy that gets him elected? Are you starting the hate thoughts already?

I regret putting the post out there without checking it out. I don't normally do it. If it is indeed true, you won't believe it anyway.
I can dig someone making a mistake, not a big deal but some people here will run with anything and not check what they're reading. I DON"T hate Bush. You've got that wrong. I actually have a picture of him hanging in my house, as well as a picture of our Republican gov. too. I don't understand the blind love some people have for him. Nothing is ever questioned, the guys got a pass from everyone. Now as far as you automatically thinking I'm full of hate and won't support Mccain, wrong again. I couldn't believe the crap Bush pulled on McCain during the primaries and McCain didn't fight. I was going into 2000 as a McCain supporter, so much for that. And as for your last comment, "I won't believe it anyway" Thats really disappointing. I'm not like some folks on here who can't, or don't seem to be able to have an open mind. I'm not going to hang on to an ideal just because I have held it for awhile. Some posters here should open their minds a little, let some fresh ideas into their noggins. Sorry I don't buy into your truthiness.

[returntotheeve]

Do ya really forget what ya typed in your own profile??:rolleyes:
I'm just usin your own description. Want me to call ya "wire fixer"?:D

Y'see, I'm so handsome I treat it that casually. You have a crush on me. Thats adorable.

[wormy]

Swamp what has gotten into you. Calling guys handsome, wanting me to play with myself. I have heard about you kind of FELLOWS on the internet. Got a crush on return do ya? Thats sweet but I sure don't understand it

[returntotheeve]

Actually, I did think it was sorta "cute" what the return has in his profile.:p
I'm still wonderin what in the hell the "eve" is......
Biography: handsome Location: New England Interests: looking at myself Occupation: repairing the wires I'm waitin for him to post a pictue of his handsome self in The Crew Thread.:rolleyes: Or you to post a pict.:D

Don't worry, I won't hold my breath.

All off subject.

[returntotheeve]

I could only link to some pictures I had done while on vakay a couple of years ago. My digital cam is missing the connection. http://splinteredsunrise.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/20050413_fabio.jpg When I find the connector I'll be sure to load em up.

[returntotheeve]

Sorry swap, I found an older one my Mommy took of me. It was in her facebook page . http://www.channel4.com/video/images/mb/Channel4/video/clip_images/my_fake_baby/My_Fake_Baby_001_001_001_001.jpg Still looking! I'm so cute, I could **** my pants, and I did.

[CenterPointEX]

Come now Eve... is this the Pot calling the Kettle Black... Your cule little pics of yerself have nothing to do with the Endless War... The Price of Rice in China... or the War between the decendants of Ismael and Issaic. Truely one that won't end any time soon...

[CenterPointEX]

This is not a war like vietnam, created by a democrat with an assination, that killed over 52,000 Americans, for no purpose what so ever.

Thank God for the men and women that are joining our military, Voluntarily. THEY understand, and they continue to Join....Voluntarily. Imagine that..... By the way guys... In Vietnam... we won! Vietnam was though not overtly, always about Russias exporting of an Ideaology... Russia was promoting, supporting, and exporting its Godless form of Government... and now... Russia no longer participates in such antics... Vietnam may have been the soil upon which this Ideology was so hotly contested, but Vietnam was never the source of the problem nor our ultimate emeny... In the same manor... our enemy in Iraq is not a people... but rather an Ideaology... An Ideaology supported and subsequently exported by Fundamentalist Islam. A Godless Theocratic Hopeful... mirrored in the forces which ruled Russia and sought to control Vietnam...

[returntotheeve]

Come now Eve... is this the Pot calling the Kettle Black... Your cule little pics of yerself have nothing to do with the Endless War... The Price of Rice in China... or the War between the decendants of Ismael and Issaic. Truely one that won't end any time soon...
You're absolutely correct! I was trying to point out the absurdity of being asked to post my picture on a board on such a severe topic. It goes from endless war and 52,000 dead to how handsome are you, when can I see you? It's not the pot calling the kettle black ,it's the pot calling the kettle stupid.

[wormy]

Or you to post a pict
After you wanting to watch me jack off I think I will decline.

[wormy]

Steve, CP, Me, T-saw, The Duck....and a bunch more. Oh yea....And our one "Lady" Lineperson...LA.

you should have a big group hug

[wormy]

I thought it was cute too

Still not going to post pic, as far as why, cause i don't want too

[duckhunter]

Hey Swamp,
How about we post pictures of what we think he looks like

[CenterPointEX]

Back in the day... we had to shame Swamp into it... So don't feel like the lone ranger.

[johnbellamy]

I got no computer skills, I believe thats pretty obvious. I don't know how to do all those neat tricks you all do, hell I can barely type. But I got two daughters 10 and twelve maybe they can help me out.

[CenterPointEX]

This is not a war like vietnam, created by a democrat with an assination, that killed over 52,000 Americans, for no purpose what so ever.

Thank God for the men and women that are joining our military, Voluntarily. THEY understand, and they continue to Join....Voluntarily. Imagine that..... By the way guys... In Vietnam... we won! Vietnam was though not overtly, always about Russias exporting of an Ideaology... Russia was promoting, supporting, and exporting its Godless form of Government... and now... Russia no longer participates in such antics... Vietnam may have been the soil upon which this Ideology was so hotly contested, but Vietnam was never the source of the problem nor our ultimate emeny... In the same manor... our enemy in Iraq is not a people... but rather an Ideaology... An Ideaology supported and subsequently exported by Fundamentalist Islam. A Godless Theocratic Hopeful... mirrored in the forces which ruled Russia and sought to control Vietnam....................

[wormy]

we had to shame Swamp into it...

after what he said about me I am shocked

[tolex42]

Didn't George Bush's farewell speech last night just turn your stomach?

[tolex42]

The election is over, Republicans truly kicked the Democrats ass. Thankfully will get a reprieve from the political attack ads for approximately 18 months.

We all heard the debates and dialogue about deficit spending, taxes, gays in the military, the stimulis, bailing out of banks and corporations, underfunded transportation systems, etc. etc. etc.

What was missing from this election? A true dialogue on the two wars that continue on and on in Iraq and Afghanistan. We've spent trillions of dollars and lost thousands of lives and brought home tens of thousands of injured servicemen and women. I heard practically no discussion on this issue.

What would our deficit be had we not chased the elusive Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq.

What are we still doing in Afghanistan? What is our purpose there now? What is our exit strategy? It certainly can't continue to be hunting down Osama bin Laden.

Why did the politicians avoid the extremely important issue of the two endless wars that are bankrupting our country. The money spent in Iraq could easily have funded a public health care system for Americans.

Remember when Cheney said "with their oil profits, Iraq will quickly pay us back for our efforts to remove Saddam Hussein".

How did that work out?

[MI-Lineman]

The election is over, Republicans truly kicked the Democrats ass. Thankfully will get a reprieve from the political attack ads for approximately 18 months.

We all heard the debates and dialogue about deficit spending, taxes, gays in the military, the stimulis, bailing out of banks and corporations, underfunded transportation systems, etc. etc. etc.

What was missing from this election? A true dialogue on the two wars that continue on and on in Iraq and Afghanistan. We've spent trillions of dollars and lost thousands of lives and brought home tens of thousands of injured servicemen and women. I heard practically no discussion on this issue.

What would our deficit be had we not chased the elusive Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq.

What are we still doing in Afghanistan? What is our purpose there now? What is our exit strategy? It certainly can't continue to be hunting down Osama bin Laden.

Why did the politicians avoid the extremely important issue of the two endless wars that are bankrupting our country. The money spent in Iraq could easily have funded a public health care system for Americans.

Remember when Cheney said "with their oil profits, Iraq will quickly pay us back for our efforts to remove Saddam Hussein".

How did that work out?

I don't know, maybe he meant "personally?":D

Sorry! I just couldn't resist!

[electriklady]

[/color][/b]

I don't know, maybe he meant "personally?":D

Sorry! I just couldn't resist!



More than likely Mike:rolleyes: