working rat

[jimmyjames]

I'm a second step appretince and new to the union. The contractor I work for does not work by the contract. Being new to the union I don't know how to handle these issues.
Some examples would be: Of our five man crew, our foreman holds an operators ticket and not a journeymans card. We have only one journeyman and two apprentices. Our experinced groundman is our substitute for a journeyman, and does all the hot work with our true journeyman. We also work a modified work week(3/11 and 1/7) and do not get paid our over time. There are a few other issues, but this should give you an idea of whats going on.
I've talked to a couple of journeymen that have completed the same apprenticeship progam I'm in, and they have encouraged me to do and say nothing until I've put my time in. I'm fine with this advice, if thats how it needs to be handled. If anyone can give me there input or comments I would appreciate it. I'm commited to the apprenticeship program, and more so the trade. I just want to get the most out of this program and do it the right way.
Any advise would be greatly appreciated. Also, Thank You, to the journyman that have given us apprentices the chance to share your trade.

[Trampbag]

Where exactly do you work? You don’t have any info in your profile.

Is the union representing you the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers?

If the contractor is not working to the contract are you working within the safety regulations, or do you know what the regulations say? Is an unqualified person able to be crew leader?

Is this contractor giving you any training?

[jimmyjames]

My apprenticship is through MSLCAT and working for a small contractor out of central Montana. I just joined so I haven't fill out my profile, I'll take care of that.
I am a member of IBEW local 44, and haven't contacted them about the situation. The other apprentices have talked to our instructor and he's given us the same advice as my journyman friends have, to bit our tounges until we put some tome in.
We work under most of the saftey regulations, although being new I'm not fully up on the regulations. Our groundman doing hot work, doesn't seem to be very safe even though he's worked as a lineman nonunion for about five years. For myself and the other apprentices we look out for eachother and refuse to do anything unsafe. Our contract states the forman must hold a journeymands card. Our forman has worked as a nonunion lineman for about 15 years, but refuses to test.
As for our training, I'm learning alot, and these guys seem to know there stuff. I just want to do things right accourding to the trade.

["little beaver"]

I'm a second step appretince and new to the union. The contractor I work for does not work by the contract. Being new to the union I don't know how to handle these issues.
Some examples would be: Of our five man crew, our foreman holds an operators ticket and not a journeymans card. We have only one journeyman and two apprentices. Our experinced groundman is our substitute for a journeyman, and does all the hot work with our true journeyman. We also work a modified work week(3/11 and 1/7) and do not get paid our over time. There are a few other issues, but this should give you an idea of whats going on.
I've talked to a couple of journeymen that have completed the same apprenticeship progam I'm in, and they have encouraged me to do and say nothing until I've put my time in. I'm fine with this advice, if thats how it needs to be handled. If anyone can give me there input or comments I would appreciate it. I'm commited to the apprenticeship program, and more so the trade. I just want to get the most out of this program and do it the right way.
Any advise would be greatly appreciated. Also, Thank You, to the journyman that have given us apprentices the chance to share your trade.

I worked out of Local 44 in 1973. I thought things were 'good average' as far as working conditions for those days. As far as ' adjusting' the work week, that use to be commonly done and I personally have no problem with it. As for the issue of using unqualified people to perform 'hot line' work, I find it hard to believe that a contrator would take that kind of a risk in todays enviroment.
If I were in your place and there is even a grain of truth in the picture you are portraying for us, I would be very careful. Are you sure that what you are sharing with us here are not tales from the sixties/ seventies? That's what it seems like to me!

[jimmyjames]

I work for a double breasted contractor. They started the nonunion side about twentyfive years ago. About 10 to fifteen years ago they started the union side. They currently have 4 union crews and two nonunion crews. All the employes, with the exception of three of them, have been cross overs from the nonunion side. There are about nineteen union employees, which include 4 journeymen and 8 apprentices. There are two crews with one journeyman and two 1st/2nd steps, and a crew with 1 journyman 1 hot apprentice a 2nd year and a first step. All are union members and pay dues but thats about as far as it goes. When ever the union or contract comes up the subject is quickly changed. I don't mean to insult there intelligance because the majority of them seem to be very knowledgable line builders. I just want to know if this is OK. I intent on being a JOURNEYMAN lineman and would like to be trained by one whose been were I'm going.

[jimmyjames]

As far as the titles of the employees, maybe you can help me out. The employees in the company not holding a journeyman card claim to be white ticket or journeyman pending exam. Know, the true journeyman on our crew claims there is no such thing. The titles I have given are according to him and if I have been mislead I apoligize. Is there such a thing as a white ticket and if so what is the diffrence of a journeyman and a white ticket other that taking the exam?

["little beaver"]

I work for a double breasted contractor. They started the nonunion side about twentyfive years ago. About 10 to fifteen years ago they started the union side. They currently have 4 union crews and two nonunion crews. All the employes, with the exception of three of them, have been cross overs from the nonunion side. There are about nineteen union employees, which include 4 journeymen and 8 apprentices. There are two crews with one journeyman and two 1st/2nd steps, and a crew with 1 journyman 1 hot apprentice a 2nd year and a first step. All are union members and pay dues but thats about as far as it goes. When ever the union or contract comes up the subject is quickly changed. I don't mean to insult there intelligance because the majority of them seem to be very knowledgable line builders. I just want to know if this is OK. I intent on being a JOURNEYMAN lineman and would like to be trained by one whose been were I'm going.

Whose property are you working on? If you are out of 44 it is either Montana Power or one of the Co-ops such as Missoula Electric Co-op or Vigilante EC, there use to be a few others in 44's area.
I worked for Harp Line Const out of Kalispell. They were sold a few years ago to an outfit out of ND. I enjoyed my time with Harp.
When I was with Harp, an apprentice was serioulsy injured when the Foreman took off with the truck with the handline tied to the headache rack, It broke the pole off and the apprentice came down with the pole. He recovered and was back in line work in about 7-8 months, as I remember. Once a crew starts to 'disrespect' basic safety rules, bad things usually happen! Learn all you can and be very careful!

["little beaver"]

As far as the titles of the employees, maybe you can help me out. The employees in the company not holding a journeyman card claim to be white ticket or journeyman pending exam. Know, the true journeyman on our crew claims there is no such thing. The titles I have given are according to him and if I have been mislead I apoligize. Is there such a thing as a white ticket and if so what is the diffrence of a journeyman and a white ticket other that taking the exam?

In 'Montana talk', "White Ticket"( I never heard this anywhere else) is a non-union JM working on permit from the union. The Line Contractors there must have an agreement that if the Union Hall can't supply JM Lineman within a certain time frame, the contractor can hire whomever on 'Permit'. However, I don't understand how they can refuse the JM's test. Usually they have to test in a certain time frame or their 'permit' is pulled.

[Trampbag]

It is rare occasion that I can agree with Little Beaver. On this point I agree. A white ticket lineman is a lineman not belonging to that IBEW, unqualified in their eyes. In the USA the IBEW is considered, in many States, the qualifying body. A white ticket lineman, and it is all throughout the USA, is supposed to work under an IBEW journeyman, not supervise crews. Unfortunately in today’s climate, a severe shortage of qualified hands, this rule can go by the wayside.

You can move on and tie in with a NECA contractor, get hired by a utility and try to get an apprenticeship or gain enough experience where you are, hoping you don’t get involved in a serious accident, and eventually get hired by a legitimate contractor.

You are in a precarious position, my friend. You need the job and the training yet you are apparently in a bad situation, having an un-qualified crew and few locally, if any, who can give you good advice.

This is one of the serious problems in out trade that needs to be addressed with vigour. I’m sorry, man, I just don’t know what else to say. Montana is one of those States that doesn’t comply like most others.

[CenterPointEX]

You don’t have any info in your profile.
?????????......................................... ............................

[Goathead]

If A contractor is not adhereing to the contract,and the member is in good standing with the union,and out of probation.He should contact the business manager about the specific grievences.If the business manager does not attend to the grievences by the specified process in the by-laws,You can file charges against your business manager for poor representation,by your local union.These problems are usually overseen by a steward,but if ones not avaiable you should talk to your B.M.Our union would give a white ticket to an experienced lineman with a probation period of one year,after that year with the backing of union members they would get a yellow ticket

[Stick-it]

Jimmy -

You NEED to speak with a representative at your hall. I am sure that you can remain anonymous if you want to. Do not allow stuff that you know is wrong to go on in front of your face. You have a duty as an IBEW member to follow your contract and constitution, apprentice or not.

You may be new to the union but you will come to find out that what your union brothers have fought so hard for needs to be protected. Afterall, it is the union that makes it possible to earn a wage that you can live on. Benefits you can count on. A safe environment to work in. It is the union that holds the contractors accountable. You absolutly need to be careful in the battles you choose to fight, and if this is not a worthwhile battle I don't know what is.

Call the hall, get some people on your side, and restore conditions in your workplace. It is your livelyhood afterall.

[suddsy]

bieng familiar with the situation you have jimmy I can simpathize, unfortunately your union is using you to breed out the rats in that company, they dropped the ball when this company was organized. I also know they wont support you and wont yank these guys' pass to work making good union wages. they have given these guys apot of gold(their wage) when they haven't slayed the dragon(the test). if you rock the boat the worst that will happen is you get laid off and then sent to CO or maybe UT, this burdun shouldn't just be yours. Look at it this way if this does happen you will top out in not that long. once you have your ticket you will be a hand with the ability to go anywhere you want without huggin nuts to keep your job. remember you can come back to 44 and work for that outfit to show them the way or not lose sleep and work for an established outfit in the state. I know you cant drag because of your app agreement, but remember you can learn just as much from the worst lineman as the best. and dont let a ticket fool you it sounds like the "journeyman" you are workin with is a little sketchy if he's letting grunts do his hot work. listen to you older apps and dont sweat it. stay safe.

["little beaver"]

bieng familiar with the situation you have jimmy I can simpathize, unfortunately your union is using you to breed out the rats in that company, they dropped the ball when this company was organized. I also know they wont support you and wont yank these guys' pass to work making good union wages. they have given these guys apot of gold(their wage) when they haven't slayed the dragon(the test). if you rock the boat the worst that will happen is you get laid off and then sent to CO or maybe UT, this burdun shouldn't just be yours. Look at it this way if this does happen you will top out in not that long. once you have your ticket you will be a hand with the ability to go anywhere you want without huggin nuts to keep your job. remember you can come back to 44 and work for that outfit to show them the way or not lose sleep and work for an established outfit in the state. I know you cant drag because of your app agreement, but remember you can learn just as much from the worst lineman as the best. and dont let a ticket fool you it sounds like the "journeyman" you are workin with is a little sketchy if he's letting grunts do his hot work. listen to you older apps and dont sweat it. stay safe.


Jimmy, if you are still out there, the above is very good advice. Also what TrampB had to say was worthwhile as well.

Totally disregard Mr. Stick, he's living in some kind of a dream world. He's not seen much of the soridid side of the IBEW. I figured there was probably some sort of 'politics' being played out and I assume that TB was thinking the same way.
As we said previous, play the game, watch yourself and learn what you can. As Suddsy said, you can learn something from everyone. The best to you!!

[jimmyjames]

Thank you guys,for the advice. It has been encouraging knowing that this is not how it is everywhere. Since my last post my instructor has touched base with the director, and from what I understand, a meeting has been arranged with the contractor and the rest of the board. Hopefully things get better for all the apprentices and I wouldn't mind layoff or transfer.

[wudwoker51]

The use of permits (white-tickets) is BS. Test them and if they pass, issue them a JL ticket. If they don't slot them into a training program and give them the training needed to succeed. If you give people the tools to succeed most will. This trade IS NOT A COUNTRY CLUB.

[Goathead]

In order to get the white ticket you have to qualify by testing.You cant get a temp ticket with no experience,You would have to be on a probationary period for six months to get a perminate ticket.These are generally guys who lost thier jobs from utilities,non union lineman would test out and be given time towards the apprenticeship.Thats because they usually have had no formal training.But its not unherd of to give non union guys yellow tickets to get them in the union.

[youguys]

So, has anyone heard anymore about this company? are they still pulling the same B.S.? has anyone done anything about it?

[grizz777]

i see your arguement i've got your back 100%,im mixin your posts a little but correct me if im wrong, in local 44's contract says nothing about white tickets having to test within 3 months or 90 days. but dosent it say in this "rea" contract that they do need to test within a certian time frame?? if this company you speak of is gonna use one contract or the other in my opinion need to choose and stick with it, not take a little of one and some of the other to make their own working conditions. and why are the men who know not speakin out? if they want to be union dont just pay dues to get the benefits do it right take the test and dont take advantage of what true journeymen lineman have fought for in negotiations for years to make the contract that is there to protect us as union members. like i said correct me if im wrong.

[Pootnaigle]

we recently turned down for membership 2 white ticket hands who had passed the JL tests but the reports from Their formman were less than glowing, Several months ago we also turned down another white ticket lineman who could not pass the test, and that same man has been promoted to foreman What the hells this werld comin to ?

[PA BEN]

we recently turned down for membership 2 white ticket hands who had passed the JL tests but the reports from Their formman were less than glowing, Several months ago we also turned down another white ticket lineman who could not pass the test, and that same man has been promoted to foreman What the hells this werld comin to ?
The Union turned them down or was it the Utility?

[PA BEN]

QUALIFICATIONS
OF MEMBERS
Sec. 1. Any worker coming under the I.B.E.W.'s jurisdiction, of good character, not less than sixteen (16) years of age, is eligible to membership, provided he passes a satisfactory examination when required to do so by the L.U.

Sec. 2. If, after being admitted to membership, it is later found upon investigation that a member is not sufficiently acquainted with the branch or type of work on which he is engaged to earn or command the established wages, then a L.U. can, through its Executive or Examining Board or an especially appointed committee, require such member to revert to the proper apprentice grade and pay rate, to attend electrical study classes or devote time toward becoming a competent, properly informed electrical mechanic or employee.

ADMISSION
OF MEMBERS

Sec. 1. No L.U. can admit an applicant who does not reside in, or who is not employed at the trade, in the jurisdiction of the L.U., unless the L.U. is directed to admit him by the I.P.

No L.U. can admit any applicant who formerly was a member of the I.B.E.W., or who was suspended or expelled by, or indebted to any L.U., without consent of the I.S.T. and without first consulting the last L.U. of which the applicant was a member in regard to his character and record. The I.P. shall decide any case in dispute

[Pootnaigle]

PA Ben it was a construction local. The foreman of their crew stated that he wouldnt turn em loose on sumpin hot, and wouldnt wanna work nothin hot with em. These guys passed the written test ( it turns out that they were substation mechanics) trying to get a linemans ticket with no prior experience doin Linework. He also stated that they were pretty good sub station hands Just not Linemen. They were working white ticket .( permit)
I dont beleive I have ever heard of a utility local turning down anybody for membership.

[mx-5]

swamp,unions my friend, provide you with the ability to bargain for things like wages,working conditions,safety and protection,amongst a host of other things,that a no-union lineman at a non-union company cannot....yes there is alot of "dead weight" that abuse the protection side of it..but i'll tell you, i'll take it..i have talk to contractors (non-union) who were fired cause the foreman did'nt like him and his father was the g.f and so on..and as far as safety....wow..i watched a contractor lineman transfer 3 phases with one eel and a short sleeve t-shirt on..and his ground help or whatever was 3 houses down talking to someone..and some of the buckets i've seen these guy's work out of,i would'nt take out of the cradle let alone glove out of...and i wonder just how often they wash their booms let alone test them..i have been union my entire time as a lineman,but would not knock a man working non-union trying to make a living for his family..but there is a difference swamp,and i think it's huge..:p

[Pootnaigle]

I agree with what NX said and also its not good business to hand out a journeyman ticket to just anybody that wants one. in my opinion they needa be qualified, and while they dont Hafta be someone I wanna take home to meet my Momma i do think a certain degree of morals are in order.

[jimmyjames]

Wow, I thought this thread as dead and gone. I got in quite a bit of hot water when I wrote this over two years ago. I understand know the outfit I worked for is a valuable asset to the union and it's ability to collective bargain and negotiate. Without numbers we have no strength as a union. Having said that, that's no excuse for contractors break the rules and be able to get away with it. I see the problem is not only with the contractor and local union but also with the members that are not willing to help. I've had the opportunity to listen to many people complain about the same problems and even the same outfit, yet none of them are willing to put in the work to better the situation. Things have been getting better, it's coming around very slowly but it is progress. The particular outfit I worked for has made some big steps forward. They've tested and passed one white ticket and have another scheduled to test. They have hired a hand full of Journeyman Lineman off the books and seem to be making an effort to make change. The problem I saw and have heard of since I left was that there is no encouragement. Guy's that wanted to play by the rules where put down by others in positions of power that were anti-union. Know you and I say that's BS and they can't get away with that but when that's the only picture of linework you know it's hard to go against the grain. On top of that all they hear from the union guys (like me at one time) is that they are worthless RATS that can't do linework and are stealing jobs from real lineman. Know I can understand that point of view but if we expect the problem to be solved than these guys that want to be union need encouragement not insult. As for the guys that want nothing to do with the union, well they should go back to the non-union contractors and quit taking advantage of our benefits. I know a hand full of guys that want to be union but don't know how to make it happen. It's up to us (the local members) to stop the *****ing and fix the problem.
I offer this to any white tickets or non union lineman within Montana or close proximity. If you want to become a union hand or need some info on getting a J-man test set up, please personal message me. I can help get you the info or get you in contact with someone that can help.

[mx-5]

it's a shame that union and non union couldn't band together to fight the one thing we have in common......corporate greed..sounds good any way.:D

[PA BEN]

I hear ya man. Agree...and don't.

You work in a "Right to work" State? Or a "Closed Shop" State. BIG Difference.

BECAUSE of Union, Wages in Linework have a "zone". That's how non union utilities and non union contractors manage to "Stay Close" to Union wages, and not be Union.

I ain't sayin it's "Good or Bad"...it just is man.

Union to me personally is just Too "Structured", almost minute by minute, tool by tool stuff.
Just ENTIRELY to Structured for me.

When I want a "Break"...I take a "Break". Not at a specific time...or for a specific time limit. And...I don't want to be lookin over my shoulder for guys with a stopwatch...."Clockin my break time".

All the Union bull****, but how non union outfits really are run...is just that.
Bull****.
But...Ya'll thnk what ya want.

UNION though...HAS been instrimental in setting a "fair wage' for Powerlinemen.

Sorry though....It ain't gonna go much higher. Union or non.:(

It's all good man....Really, It's all good.
We have a Contract, that's good "Structured" to work by, and when management wants to change something they have to sit down with the Union. It's not only wages, it's someone who knows labor law to protect IBEW members.:rolleyes:

[electric squirrel]

Sorry pal but it will never happen!! I think its a great idea, we could form a monopoly just like those big corporations and stick it to everybody by driving prices up, the oil company guys do it ,why cant lineman.(thats sarcasm for those of who you that missed it)

The real problem is pride and machismo!!!!
How are you gonna get a bunch of guys that have the big egos together and unite when there is no equality,,,,,,,, the guy standing next to you is either a better or worse lineman than you.Fact!!

I went to 4 years of school and paid my dues to get my ticket. I hate to say it but I do have a chip on my shoulder against the guy who didn't spend a sleepless night doing book work after a hard day in the hooks, or who hasn't seen every "Motel 6" in the northern hemisphere.

Please explain to me how a guy who I met in Houston on the Ike storm , is qualified to be considered a lineman when he himself told me he has never done any UG or Transmission or can't vector . Yet, he not only is a lineman at his company but he's also pushing a crew.He honestly knew he wasn't a true Journeyman but you couldn't tell him that!

I've said this before on this website your always gonna have the union/rat argument , the union guys who went to school and advanced through the steps is gonna be pissed off when you get some guy who has never had to do the same and pay him the same . You get some guy who grew up on a line crew and been doing it all his life but cant draw a vector ,or explain ferroresonance but is a fine glover he's gonna be asschapped when he don't get paid the same.

How you gonna make it fair? How?? I don't see any way except documentation and testing.

Swamp I don't know what Union you think is "Entirely to Structured" I work Union and don't have anybody clock watching me, when I want to take a break I do,or eat lunch. Some days we eat breakfast at a diner or don't eat at all depending on the days job.The point is I have the right to stop and take "five" because of my contract. Maybe you are thinking of the power company guys , but outside construction lineman pretty much do what we want at least where I work.But you can bet we do our fair share of work!
As far as wages your 100% right , the Union has been instrumental in fighting for fair wages.Every time the IBEW boys get a raise the non union boys think they should be getting paid more too. Think about it, correct me if I'm wrong...I could be, I'm not perfect,I'm just an IBEW Journeyman Lineman E.S.

[jimmyjames]

Aside form the pompous arrogant attitude you get from us union hands. What is it that the union has to offer that you feel is the sh!ts? I haven't had to many constructive conversations about the subject with non-union hands. I'm just curious, without the BS, what you feel is the down side of the union or union hands? I suppose I'm opening myself up for a rash of sh!t. Not looking for an argument or fight just want to know the root or source of the problem as you see it.

[JLT]

Im hope you dont open a can of shi$ but of course you know you will!!!lol
I really dont know man, been in line work for a while, grew up with it, and been on both sides of the fence. Personally I think alot of non unions are being treated very good by the employer myself) and we dont see the need for all the politic bs. the attitudes dont help, but being a union hand also i know its not at all shops, just wanna work without someone telling me i have to belong to a whatever

[tolex42]

Im hope you dont open a can of shi$ but of course you know you will!!!lol
I really dont know man, been in line work for a while, grew up with it, and been on both sides of the fence. Personally I think alot of non unions are being treated very good by the employer myself) and we dont see the need for all the politic bs. the attitudes dont help, but being a union hand also i know its not at all shops, just wanna work without someone telling me i have to belong to a whatever


That's a fare response. Thanks for keeping it civil.

[Boomer gone soft]

Yes it really is.

But, that's just "people" man. "Disagreement". We've always tended to be "birds of a feather", and flock together with birds like us.

Why soar with Eagles.....when ya can hang with Turkeys?:D

The only way to fight "corporate greed" is through collective bargaining.

Your lone voice is easy to ignore.

Of course that's mine and my brother's rub with this whole process.....

Collective bargaining doesn't work when rats are willing to work in any conditions with no training or benefits.:mad:

[Boomer gone soft]

There's more of my "Lone Voice" out here than you realize man.....

Yup. Your "Rub" is with anyone how doesn't "Get it"......Your way.

This is one thing we definitely do agree on....

I don't get how you would be willing to:

1. Do the same work for less pay.
2. Less benefits.
3. No grievance rights.
4. Little (if any) formal training.
5. No standard of what a "journeyman" is.
6. No idea what kind of guy is working next to you.
7. No formalized representation in the legislature.
8. No real input into industry standards
9. No "just cause" clause.
10. No defined working conditions.
11. No defined wage scale.
12. No pension.
13. No defined overtime.
14. No seniority.
15. etc, etc. ad infinitum

Your rat companies would not dig even one hole or set one pole without a contract......

WHY WOULD YOU?:confused:

http://www.ibew.org/union/index.htm

[Boomer gone soft]

Live better--work union (http://http://www.aflcio.org/joinaunion/union101.cfm):D

For yourself, for your family, for your Country, and for your Trade.


How do unions help working families today?

Through unions, workers win better wages, benefits and a voice on the job—and good union jobs mean stronger communities. Union workers earn 30 percent more than nonunion workers and are more likely to receive health care and pension benefits than those without a union. In 2007, median weekly earnings for full-time union wage and salary workers were $863, compared with $663 for their nonunion counterparts. Unions lead the fight today for better lives for working people, such as through expanded family and medical leave, improved safety and health protections and fair-trade agreements that lift the standard of living for workers all over the world.



What have unions accomplished for all workers?

Unions have made life better for all working Americans by helping to pass laws ending child labor, establishing the eight-hour day, protecting workers’ safety and health and helping create Social Security, unemployment insurance and the minimum wage, for example. Unions are continuing the fight today to improve life for all working families in America.



What challenges do workers face today when they want to form unions?

Today, thousands of workers want to join unions. The wisest employers understand that when workers form unions, their companies also benefit. But most employers fight workers’ efforts to come together by intimidating, harassing and threatening them. In response, workers are reaching out to their communities for help exercising their freedom to improve their lives.

["little beaver"]

The only way to fight "corporate greed" is through collective bargaining.

Your lone voice is easy to ignore.

Of course that's mine and my brother's rub with this whole process.....

Collective bargaining doesn't work when rats are willing to work in any conditions with no training or benefits.:mad:

What's "Corporate greed"?

[Boomer gone soft]

Don't confuse the boy Beav.:D
He can't even answer the Secret ballot question. God knows, we don't want him Chimin in on what Corporate Greed is!!:eek:

****! He'd have to go to his .edu College web sites to give a comprehensive answer on That question.:rolleyes: He only deals in his "Facts" man.....


The answering is not so tough as the understanding, I'd say.....

eh dr. dumbass?:rolleyes:

You've only had 20 pages worth of explanations.

[Boomer gone soft]

we ain't socialist yet CL....but, "we're workin on it"....

Union Wage Rule Means Fewer Projects Completed With Stimulus Cash

State governments that contract jobs paid for with stimulus money will be required to pay workers on construction projects union wages rather than market rates, meaning fewer projects will get done.


FOXNews.com (Not FACT, just Bull****) "Opinion"....for soft boomer.:p
Monday, March 16, 2009


State governments that contract jobs paid for with stimulus money will be required to pay workers on construction projects union wages rather than market rates -- good news for workers but good news for not as many of them.
The Office of Management and Budget included in the $787 billion stimulus bill the Davis-Bacon provision, a 1931 law typically only used on federal highway projects. But under the new spending plan, Davis-Bacon will apply to all state and local jobs on energy, housing, agriculture or construction.
Higher costs per project mean fewer projects completed, especially since some "shovel ready" projects were bid as non-union jobs. Some local officials and economists say the union wage mandate means taxpayer dollars won't be stretched as far as otherwise was planned.


A man of your integrity might even suggest the stimulus would go even further if the South would have won.....:rolleyes: