forced overtime and call-outs

[boogerman]

I work for Allegheny Power in PA ,representented by Utility Workers Union. Does anyone else have a certain number of call-out acceptence you have to meet per year? And a minimum number of hrs of OT per year. We got this in our last contract almost one year ago, along with some other crazy things most unions would not even think of accepting. And we did it four months before our contract ended.

[CHICAGO HAND.]

YA WE GOT SOME OF THAT,AND AFTER WE LOST IN ARBITRATION SOME 400 OF US GOT TOGETHER AND HIRED A LAWYER. WE ARE IN THE PROCESS OF SUING FOR BEING ON CALL WITHOUT PAY.
IT HAS BEEN A HEATED DISCUSSION SINCE 2003.


CHECK OUT THE SIGHT OUR FIRM PUT TOGETHER FOR US.

http://www.exelonlinemen.com/

[CenterPointEX]

I just wonder how long it is gonna be or what it is gonna take for the IBEW to stand up and grow some balls... We are in the drivers seat because this nations electrical infrastructure has been neglected for about five years now. Ever since the deregulation bug allowed unethical corperate raiders to come in and rape the rate paying public. Because they have been neglecting the infra structure there has not been a lot of work so the IBEW members have been cowering and begging and accepting crap contracts and condition just so they can keep working for these ungrateful miserable smucks... Brothers... Its high time...

[PA BEN]

Hay boogerman, Did you guys vote this in? And if you didn't how did management get it in?

[loodvig]

National Grid has those rules also. I forget the exact number of hours you must work though.

[boogerman]

Yes this got voted in by the members, but in our company the same union represents different departments ie., power station workers, meter readers, sub-station workers, mechanics, storeroom workers,get my point ? We the lineman got targeted on this contract and most in it effected us. Some other issues were no pension for new hires, partner with the Co. to train new lineman and have them work as temps. to give experience, (so they don't hire full time people just keep turning them over) The Co. agreed to hire afew new people,that dosen't eqaul the ones that will retire. Best of all the union would not reveal the vote count, said it would give info to the Co. of the weak spots.I can go on and on. Best thing with the forced OT they can raise it if they think they need to.

[graybeard]

Yea this strenght in numbers isn't working out for the line side of the IBEW. Lineman used to be the majority of a local and now thats not the case. Seems all they want to do is make the plant guys happy because it seems that the last few contracts they make out and we seem to loose. We need an international brotherhood of LINEMAN

[duckhunter]

You mean your company actually wants you to come to work when they need you? ****, I sure hope they plan on paying you to be there. I don't think car salesmen or burger flippers are expected to work overtime. No wonder illegal aliens are hired in this country. I'll bet they wouldn't ***** about having to work for time and a half and double time.

[Bull Dog]

We had the same problem no nuts in the union. Some of us have a life outside of work.

[boogerman]

Duckhunter? wonder how I guy would get that handle. Would it be he is a hunter? A hobby outside of work, what a shame, his mind can now be occupied with thoughts outside of work, he can actually enjoy himself. Or you can work OT or if your not working you can wait to be called. I like to do my job but I like to run my own life.OH I know the generic answer JUST QUIT! if you don't like it. Even all those years ago,I had a life, what I needed was a job. Now I have union and company telling me how much time I will spend at work.I don't know which I like more, my wife and kids, or the guys that like all the overtime.

[CHICAGO HAND.]

Workers' Rights
Unions Give Workers the Power to Fight Forced Overtime (Sep. 12, 2002)
By Ron Bigler

During periods of high unemployment, workers who are lucky enough to keep their jobs are commonly forced by managers to pick up the slack by working more overtime hours and taking on duties once performed by colleagues who are now drawing unemployment.

There is an old union solidarity slogan that called working overtime in a time of high unemployment "scabbing on the unemployed." In fact, when the first federal overtime law -- the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) -- was enacted in 1938 during the Great Depression and under pressure from organized labor, one of its goals was to encourage companies to hire unemployed workers. Legislators assumed that employers would hire new workers rather than pay higher wages for overtime hours.

Today, many workers may feel angry that companies are squeezing employees rather than keeping adequate staffing levels. And while you might think there are federal laws limiting overtime hours, there are not.

Under the FLSA, employers can schedule more than 40 hours a week as long they pay time and a half to employees who are eligible -- supervisors, farmworkers, and some professionals are usually exempt from overtime laws. Generally, there is no legal limit on the number of hours an employer can schedule, and under the FLSA there are no rights or protections for workers who refuse to work mandatory overtime. As a result, many workers are trapped in a position where they have to work whatever hours the boss asks or fear being fired or disciplined.

A few states, however, do have laws regulating overtime. Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura, for example, signed a new law this year that makes it illegal for health care employers in acute care settings to take action against a nurse for refusing to work overtime.

Unions Bargain for Limits on Mandatory Overtime

Download fact sheet on collective bargaining and mandatory overtime produced by the Labor Project for Working Families and the Working Women's Department, AFL-CIO.

In some cases, overtime is scheduled on a voluntary basis, with supervisors asking workers to sign up if they are available to work extra shifts. Union workers are also more likely to have contracts that limit overtime and establish rules for requesting overtime.


After striking against Verizon in 2000, the Communications Workers of America (CWA), for example, won new contract language limiting mandatory overtime to a maxium of 7.5 hours per work week, down from 15 hours.

The Teamsters also won new restrictions on forced overtime in the recent UPS contract negotiations.

And in current negotiations with Boeing, the International Association of Machinists (IAM) union is seeking to limit the amount of overtime to 128 hours per budget quarter from 144. In addition to the quarterly limits, IAM's contract with Boeing restricts scheduled overtime to only two consecutive weekends, limited to 8 hours per day; it also requires that "[o]vertime work on either a Saturday and a Sunday, or on a Saturday or a Sunday, shall constitute a weekend worked."

In workplaces where overtime is voluntary, workers can sometimes use the refusal to volunteer for overtime as bargaining leverage. City bus mechanics and operators in Pittsburgh have been refusing to sign up for voluntary overtime in the wake of recent layoffs. Although the job action has not been officially sanctioned by the workers' union, Local 85 of the Amalgamated Transit Union (ATU), rank-and-file members have been putting up notices around the workplace urging "No Overtime Now" and "No Extra Work After Sept. 1," the effective date of the layoffs. See: "Port Authority transit workers declining overtime"

In the summer of 2000, Airline pilots at United Airlines refused to fly voluntary overtime hours to gain bargaining leverage, a strategy which resulted in thousands of canceled flights.

[Note: A recent appeals court ruling involving Airborne Express found that its pilots' refusal to bid for voluntary overtime was not an illegal action under federal labor law. See: http://www.westbuslaw.com/cases/labor/1101_labor_01.html ]

Unpaid Overtime Also an Issue

There are times when employers will seek to cut back on overtime hours, which leads to abuses. Wal-Mart, for example, has a notorious reputation for ordering managers to schedule zero overtime. This practice has led to a wave of lawsuits charging that Wal-Mart managers failed to pay for overtime and altered employee timecards to cheat them out of pay.

Some companies will also misclassify workers as supervisors to avoid paying overtime. These disputes often require workers to hire lawyers and sue to recover back wages. Current and former employees of General Electric Aircraft Engines, for example, recently filed a federal lawsuit in Cincinnati alleging that the company has been illegally classifying some managers as salaried professionals to avoid paying them overtime. The lawsuit also charges that GE improperly deducts wages or vacation time from these managers if they are absent for any part of the day.

In 2001, the U.S. Department of Labor (DOL) investigated 31,772 cases of alleged employer violations of FLSA and ordered $134 million in back wages paid to 219,195 employees who had been misclassified by employers.

Some companies will also try avoid paying overtime to workers who did not get the extra hours approved by a supervisor. But as the Department of Labor notes, companies can still be required to pay overtime even when workers are not told to work extra hours. According to the DOL:

The overtime requirement may not be waived by agreement between the employer and employees. An agreement that only 8 hours a day or only 40 hours a week will be counted as working time also fails the test of FLSA compliance. An announcement by the employer that no overtime work will be permitted, or that overtime work will not be paid for unless authorized in advance, also will not impair the employee's right to compensation for compensable overtime hours that are worked.

The Realities of Overtime

For many low-wage workers, working overtime is the only way to make ends meet on $6 an hour. Although this current fact of life is eroding the idea of the standard 40-hour week for millions of workers, unless employers are forced to pay higher minimum wages, or more workers join unions, the trend is likely to continue.

Chronic overtime is disruptive to workers' lives. Not knowing how long the workday will be makes it hard for workers to plan ahead, spend time with family, and lead a normal life. That's why organizing a union and negotiating contract language that spells out how overtime will be scheduled are the only real options for workers.

© 2002 Labor Research Association

[boogerman]

I just love that saying LIVE FREE or DIE! Gives me a chill every time I say it.

[duckhunter]

If you go in to line work you are going to need to work overtime. The people in this line of work who don't are called supervisors, maybe you would be better served as one. There may be companies that have unreasonable request for overtimne work, but I see way too many guys who are more interested in drinking instead of getting their cutomers power back on. The customers who pay their salaries. So they can drink beer, buy trucks, send their kids to college.

[Hurricane Harry]

That sounds like something a stupervisor might say.

[CHICAGO HAND.]

Or Someone We Need To Take "duck Hunting".

[duckhunter]

Those replies sound like linemen that need to retire. There ae lots of jobs out there that don't require overtime. I'll bet you think guys who are willing to work are suck ass company men too.

It's obvious we wont change each others minds. I'll just take the overtime so I can retire earlier.

[CenterPointEX]

In 1983 when Hurricane Alisha hit, Centerpoint had around 1200 lineman. They now have less than 500. Those remaining must work between 500 to a 1000 hours a year overtime. Prior to second round of lay offs in which I lost my job, I worked those kinda hours For CenterPoint. Now, working out of the hall... I have the option of dragging. I mean if I am gonna spend weeks away from my family, I might as well travel to someplace where I can make some money.

[CHICAGO HAND.]

1100 hours and i am the low guy and most of that is the last 6 months of the year.

[boogerman]

That's the part that gets me, guys work 1000 hrs OT and they are accually happy to be there that much more. I always thought working a dangerous job, getting paid good ment you didn't have to put in an extra 6 months every year. So add up your OT and figure out when you should retire early but I'm willing to bet you won't because by this point you need all that OT to get to your next pay check. Let's not make this a lazy guy thing vs. a mucho macho guy thing,this is all about companies choosing not to having adequate personal to staff their buisness and demand workers to work huge amounts of OT. And your right you won't change my mind. Kids will remember the time you spent with them, not the extra money you made.

[CenterPointEX]

Amen BGM, here in HOuston the boys have gotten so used to working those hours and making one of the lowest wages in the country for this kind of work, that they don't even realize that they are no longer employees but rather they have become wage slaves... A thing the Unions were formed to protect us against. So basicly yes... If everybody still employeed gives up their lives to take up the slack for the guys that got laid off... They are part of the problem... Scabs in sense. You gotta ask, "What motivates companies to do such a thing?" Same thing motivates the Lineman to work so many hours... Money... We have become a nation that worships it... To the demise of all other Gods and all other things... including our families...

[MrStub]

National Grid requires us to answer between 35 to 40% of call outs in a year. If you work more than 400 hrs. (combination of planned and call outs),
you satisfy the overtime quota for the year.
If you don't respond or work enough o.t. you will be repremanded.

[shaun]

I guess our numbers are a bit more relaxed at just 30 and 10 (scheduled OT and call-out, respectively) On average we'll see about 1200 hrs/year combined though, that's the low man at the end of the year. During contracts, it's the same deal I guess as the original post starter. Generation has the biggest numbers thus the majority of votes. If it's good for them, it's good for everybody and we always tend to get the crap end of the stick. Even with all those hours logged, the forces are getting more and more frequent. How much can somebody actually work? I mean, until safety is in question? There are times that I drive home and just keep right on going past my exit because I'm fookin exhausted to the point where my mind is somewhere else. NOT because I had the opportunity to say no and was greedy either. Forced. Another thing that gets me is some of my brothers who "help out," the company by going into the Upgrade pool. So if the company needs to make up a legal crew, they get upgraded and it's all good. If you ask me, NOBODY should be getting into that kinda pool, rather, stay out of it and make the company hire on more guys. It's common sense. I could go on and on about what I think but it seems like we're all on the same page (except DH) anyways. Have a good holiday weekend fellas. Those forced in or still working on restoring power from storm work, hang in there, be safe, and I feel for ya's. (we escaped this time!!)

[graybeard]

They way I got the thread is FORCED OT. Companies cut manpower and still have the same amount of work or more so either make those left work more hours threaten to replace them with contractors. I love my job but it takes the fun out when you work 10 or 12 hour days and then have call outs on top of that. Guys with kids in school end up missing out on alot and them kids are only little once. When I took the job I knew there would be OTnbut to forced because of cut backs sucks,just so corprats can make more.

[liledgy]

Com ED linemen really take it up the ass, not only are they averaging over 1200 hours per man , but their pension is based on base pay so they don,t even make out when they retire. Their pension is the same whether they work 2080 hours a year or 5200 (a linemen southwest of Chicago in a burb). Lets see should I replace employees or just force existing workers to double their hours and cut pension costs in half? And the union has been on board with this since 1994. Mr Hill are you reading this?

[CHICAGO HAND.]

The President Of The International Does Not Care About Us.
What He Sees Is The Number Of Members On Edisons Property, Which Is Mostly Contractors. It Seems He Is More Concerned Them Than Us.one Of These Days We Are Gonna Wake Up And Say Why Did We Sit Around And Take That Crap When We Had The Upper Hand Against The Corporate Nazi's?

God Forbid It But If We Loose Arcos We Better Quit Answering The Phone And Have Them Fire All Of Us And Then See What Happens.
Think Of It, They Couldnt Fire All Of Us They Would Have To Negotiate Some Form Of Call Out Compensation.
But Then Again Mr Hill Would Probably Have The Contractors Step All Over Us To Get Further In The Door.

[liledgy]

CH, when they implemented arcos it was time to stop answering the phone. now that they have linemen at different steps of probation they will fire them in steps. making examples of them for the remaining. If the linemen would've stopped answering the phone in the beginning then everyone would be in the same step of time off. You guys lost the battle at the very beginning. I also wouldn't worry to much about the contractors, they get paided very well and Edison hasn't been very effective at getting them to conform like their employees. The closer you aline yourselves with the outside the more effective you will be. Just my opinion of course.

[Racer X]

Besides the unfair ARCOS (call outs), you get screwed and harassed everyday at ComEd. The truck audits about your cones are not "being spaced enough" and the housekeeping procedures.....our company, because of Exelon has become unbearable to work for. This company use to be the best to work for, now it is the worst.

All we have to do is stick together and follow the Exelon procedures!

[boogerman]

Someone mentioned that Comed did not calculate pension on OT hours. It looks like they may have to if the hours are mandantory because that is part of your normal working year. Here's something else we have been doing lately, co. says to pack your bags for a trip out if town x number of days, come in the next morning ready to leave and NO TRIP. They have pulled this five times now. We are just about feed up this pratice. Let me explain our out-of-town pay, it's the same as we get at home, I'm courious how many others get that. Straight time for the first 8 hrs. 1 1/2 after that, 11/2 on Sat. and double on Sun. We get a 5% bonus if we work for a forgein company.

[CHICAGO HAND.]

GOOD INFO ON PENSIONS


http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/

[CHICAGO HAND.]

http://www.thelaborers.net/newspapers/ny_times/Overtime%20Rises,%20Making%20Fatigue%20a%20Labor%2 0Issue.htm

[Trampbag]

God Forbid It But If We Loose Arcos We Better Quit Answering The Phone And Have Them Fire All Of Us And Then See What Happens.
Think Of It, They Couldnt Fire All Of Us They Would Have To Negotiate Some Form Of Call Out Compensation.
But Then Again Mr Hill Would Probably Have The Contractors Step All Over Us To Get Further In The Door.


Didn't Regan do that to the air controllers back in 81, wasn't it? Wouldn’t it be kinda appropriate if they fired all the linehands for not answering the phone? Could they get the army to cover this time???

Naw, they would find some rat assed ******* to scab somewhere. Might kill a whole bunch of them. Huuuuuuummmmmmmmm??

You know what? I’ve slowly come to the conclusion that the IBEW just might not be doing a good job.

But this looks good on the utilities. There were a lot of years where there wasn’t much work around, the 80’s through the 90’s. No apprenticeships, or certainly not anywhere near enough to replace the aging linecrews. Not much foresight on the part of the over paid stuffed shirts that are supposed to be the captains of the industry.

Duckhunter had a great idea. Drink beer. You can’t drive if you had a couple on your own time. What are the utilities going to do then??? Order you to DWI?

[CHICAGO HAND.]

The Corporate Nazi's Here Would Call That "unfit For Duty".
The Duty That We Are On At Home Off The Clock Without Pay.
We Better Not Loose This Law Suit.

[novoltage]

Last year I worked 1575 hours OT and I was on FMLA(no pay) from Nov.17 til the end of the year.Made 133K and my call out rating was 45%.This year I have 270 hours OT as of Mar.15 and its not even busy yet.

[CenterPointEX]

and I thought a thousand was a lot.