One Nation Under God? [Archive]

CenterPointEX

01-20-2006, 10:06 AM

More people has died at the hands of your G0DDAMNED JESUS FREAKS THAN BY HITLER. You keep your religion out and seperate from our government. I think there is as many Democrats against same sex marriage as the moral right. Thats your whole problem fearing a spook and not using your brain to get you and this country out of the shit the religious fruitcakes has put it in.
The Cathlics have laws derived from something called "Tradition"; born of the Roman Emporer Constatine, that superceed the Bible. Tradition is nothiing more than man made laws. Men deciding right an wrong based on their feelings. The reformation sought redirect this Catholic, Hellenistic influenced Philosophy.

. For me, right and wrong are not subject to my feelings... My feelings; more often than not, would lead me in a differant direction than Gods word. Gods word is what I use to determine right and wrong. What makes this country so strong is that its principles of right and wrong were garnered directly from the Bible. Half of the men who framed the constitution, held seminary degrees, they were pastors. Only five of the framers could not be pinned down as being confessing christians. Wanna guess which men get the most press in todays history books?
. The constitution of this country and all of the States, state that the rights therin, were rights given to us by our Creator. Because these men were Christians, we know that the Creator mentioned in our documents is God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, the God of Abraham, Issiac, and Jacob. A clear sense of right and wrong taken from the iron clad truths of the Bible were woven into our Goverment and Laws. .
. You can say, because it don't work for me, "I don't believe this" all you want. But the facts will support that this is the truth. George Washington for example, spent two hours a day in prayer and Bible Study. If you want, I can go down the list of the founding fathers and tell you of their contributions to the cause of Christ. It is quite an impressive list. Every presidential inagural address since then has included a prayer or petion to the almighty God. All the presidents save one; John F. Kennedy, have been prodestant and thus prayed to the Lord Jesus Christ. They no longer teach these things in history class, but there was a time when they did. Not before or since has there been a nation founded on the Christian principles upon which our country was built.

. Your life, liberty, and freedom Mr. Batts are indeed inalienable rights given to you by your creator. To tear down these principles Mr. Batts would be to tear down this Country with your own hands. Careful what you hope for, lest you no longer be the subject of the priciples laid forth in Bible, but rather become the subject of principles laid forth by men, as was the case in Neros Rome, Napolians France, Stalins Russia and Hitlers Germany...
You can not have it both ways Steve....But, butt, but...But God Damnit,... Your Soul is Yours,... "God Bless ya man".

dungnfam

01-20-2006, 10:24 AM

Amen to that CPX. Everyone would be better off if they put their life in the hands of Christ. Give yourself over to Him. The only way into Heaven and eternal life is by God's grace through your Faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Don't let Satan control your life, and he is controlling your life right now if you haven't given your life to Christ and you probably don't even know it. Everyone is a sinner. Christians will tell you that nobody, except Christ, is perfect. Christians aren't perfect. We're just forgiven by Christ for our sins. God bless everyone.

highlineswitcher

01-20-2006, 10:47 AM

dungnfam you preach pretty good how about the part where it says though shall not steal . view it as you may but as you have said in another post you would cross that picket line . view it as you wish but that is stealing.not on a material level but on a higher level you are stealing the right of those people and there families who are sticking up for what they believe
to make a better living for themselves

CenterPointEX

01-20-2006, 11:11 AM

SBatts

01-20-2006, 12:54 PM

Just curious Highline, are you a Christian?
. In Malachi chapter three the Bible asks, 8 "Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me."But you ask, 'How do we rob you?'... bring the whole tithe to the temple...
and again in Romans chapter two it asks,
. "You who teach others, do you teach yourselves? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples?"

BUSH TALKS TO GOD SO NOW BUSH IS COMING AFTER YOUR INTERNET.

MORE OF HIS FREE SPEECH ZONES.??????

Feds want records of Web searches

By Seattle Times news services

The Bush administration, seeking to revive an online-pornography law struck down by the U.S. Supreme Court, has subpoenaed Google for details on what users have been looking for on its popular search engine.

Google has refused to comply with the subpoena, and on Wednesday the Bush administration asked a San Jose, Calif., federal judge to force the company to do so.

Federal investigators already have obtained potentially billions of Internet search requests made by users of major Web sites run by Microsoft, Yahoo! and America Online, which all complied with the government request, issued in August, a Justice Department official said Thursday.

The subpoena asks for a broad range of material from Google's databases, including 1 million random Web addresses and records of all Google searches from any one-week period, the Justice Department said.

Although the data do not include users' names or computer addresses, the disclosure alarmed civil-liberties advocates who fear the government may follow with requests for such information.

A Justice Department spokesman said Thursday that the government was not interested in ferreting out names — only in determining search trends as part of its efforts to regulate online pornography. But the search-engine subpoenas come amid broader concerns over how much information the government collects and how that data are used.

Congress is debating an extension of the Patriot Act, which dramatically expanded the government's ability to obtain private data. And congressional hearings are expected soon on the legality of a secret National Security Agency program to track communications by U.S. citizens without previous court approval.

"My understanding is we were seeking what keywords are put in and URLs," Justice Department spokesman Charles Miller said Thursday. "Nothing personal."

The other search engines disclosed the information after narrowing the government's original request for two months' worth of searches to one week's worth. The week was not specified.

A Microsoft spokesman said the company complied with the request "in a way that ensured we also protected the privacy of our customers. We were able to share aggregated query data ... that did not include any personally identifiable information."

Yahoo! also said it provided no personally identifiable information.

"We are rigorous defenders of our users' privacy," Yahoo! spokeswoman Mary Osako said. "We did not provide any personal information in response to the Department of Justice's subpoena. In our opinion, this is not a privacy issue."

AOL spokesman Andrew Weinstein said the company initially rebuffed the Justice Department's requests and eventually provided "an aggregated and anonymous list of search terms. ... What we gave them was something that was extremely limited, didn't have any privacy implications and is fairly common data."

Google, though, said the words in a single text query could lead the government to a searcher's identity. "One can envision scenarios where queries alone could reveal identifying information," the company wrote in a letter objecting to the demand.

"Their demand for information overreaches," said Nicole Wong, Google's associate general counsel. "We had lengthy discussions with them to try to resolve this, but were not able to and we intend to resist their motion vigorously."

More broadly, the company wrote, "Google's acceding to the request would suggest that it is willing to reveal information about those who use its services. This is not a perception that Google can accept."

One leading search expert, who wrote "The Search: How Google and Its Rivals Rewrote the Rules of Business and Transformed Our Culture," praised Google's stance on the issue. "It's not just about this one request," John Battelle wrote in his Web journal Searchblog. "This is a major, major moment. And shame on the other engines for not standing up and fighting."

The Justice Department issued the subpoenas as part of its effort to resurrect the 1998 Child Online Protection Act, a federal law designed to shield children from Internet pornography. A 2004 Supreme Court decision blocked the law's enforcement.

The law required that sexually oriented commercial Web sites take steps to keep minors out, such as requiring a credit card for entry.

The Supreme Court held that the government had failed to prove that the law's criminal penalties would protect children without unduly limiting options for adults. It sent the case back to the Philadelphia-based U.S. Court of Appeals for the 3rd Circuit for a trial that is to begin in October.

The Justice Department said it needed the information to address a Supreme Court demand that it establish a "factual record" with which to buttress its argument that the 1998 federal law would be more effective than filtering software in preventing children from accessing adult material on the Internet.

The government argued that the Google data would, among other things, help it to understand what Web sites people visit, estimate how much "harmful-to-minors" content may be on those sites, and gauge the effectiveness of software in screening out such material.

"This is the latest example where the government seems to think they are entitled to get all sorts of information without providing an adequate justification," said Aden Fine, a staff attorney in the American Civil Liberties Union's New York-based national office.

Google has the largest share of U.S. Web searches with 46 percent, according to November 2005 figures from Nielsen/Net Ratings. Yahoo! is second with 23 percent, and MSN third with 11 percent.

According to Nielsen/NetRatings, more than 38 million people — 25 percent of U.S. Internet users — visited an adult Web site in December.

Search engines and e-mail providers are asked for information on specific people in hundreds of cases yearly, both by law enforcement and in civil lawsuits. They generally comply, and their privacy policies warn users that data can be turned over to authorities.

Under a section of the Patriot Act expanding the use of so-called National Security Letters, companies such as Google can be asked to turn over potentially useful data — even about people who aren't suspected of wrongdoing.

But no previous case is known to have involved such a wide range of data.

Compiled from the Los Angeles Times, Knight Ridder Newspapers and The Washington Post

Copyright © 2005 The Seattle Times Company

highlineswitcher

01-20-2006, 01:33 PM

Orgnizdlbr

01-20-2006, 01:54 PM

You are good a cut and paste Steve, Now can you tell us why you think they want a list of what folks search for on the internet.
. All men who have seen pornography know the problems it causes to our mental health. Any guy looking at a naked woman, can not think straight. A habit of viewing Pornography will cause a man to see all women in his mind naked. Thus he never thinks straight. The drugs our body produces during sexual release and pre release is ten times more powerful and addicting than heroin. Just like drugs, one needs bigger and bigger doses of it to feed the habit. So the addict becomes more and more deviant, until the fantasy no longer satisfy him and he acts out his desires. When that happens it is always bad news. The anonamous easy access that the internet provides has increased the addiction numbers astronomicly and exponentially in this country. To the point that Porn is the biggest media industry outlet in the country.

Mr. Batts, do you think we should do anything to curb this American Addiction? Or should we allow it free reign an live with the consequences?

CP, where do you get your facts from? You are a man of conviction, I respect that. Back this statement up, I'm starting to worry about you. http://powerlineman.com/lforum/images/smilies/wink.gif

CenterPointEX

01-20-2006, 02:03 PM

CHICAGO HAND.

01-20-2006, 05:17 PM

This Country Was Founded By Religious Nuts With Guns

Orgnizdlbr

01-20-2006, 06:34 PM

Pick a statement you want backed up OGB, and I will attempt to oblige you. I read a lot, I write a lot. As a hobby I study people. I am certain, OGB that since you have access to the internet, you have seen online porn. Am I wrong; from your experience, in saying that it has an intoxicating effect on you? Those images get burned into your brain like a read only CD. Years later you can still see them. Your brain circuits actually get rewired.

Sure CP, what publication, research paper, thesis, or medical journal have you perused that gave an opinion stating that porn I have viewed specific to the internet or in any other form has been "BURNED" into my Brain? Who,what expert, has given an opinion that porn has what you describe as an intoxicating effect more powerful than herion? As I stated previously, you are well read, you can make eloquent statements and argument on a viriety of issues. I think your opinion and hypothosis on this one is wrong. I respect your opinion. I respect your belief in the Lord. I have a problem with fundemental evangelicals who find they must impose their puritanical life style and beliefs on others.

So quote me the expert, qoute me the publication, quote me the study and I'll read it with an objective view. But dont quote it from some right wing evangical publication with an agenda and an axe to grind, I wont waste my time.

Let me ask you this; what is your defination of pornogrophy, is it hard core porn, or is it a statue in the Justice Department that holds the scales of Justice? Remember that bit of Puritanical nonsense? AG Ashcroft covering a statue because it was lewd? Oh, wait, that statue has been burned into my brain......or was it Jimmy Swagerts brain, I dont quite remember.

BTW, is viewing a womans naked body detrimental to ones mental health? I was under the impresion that we were all created in the image and likeness of God. Is it a sin CP?

BTW, IMO the porn industry is a vile business. The industry exploits women, uses them up and throws them away. For all of those who profit from the industry, justice would be served if their daughters went into the business. The people who profit from that industry are some of the lowest forms of human life.

CenterPointEX

01-20-2006, 07:27 PM

This may take a while, but here we go.
www.healingsprings.com/ENDORPHINS.htm
. This is a secular article on the drugs produced in body during the sexual process. First discovered in 1975, endorphins ("endogenous morphine") is one of several morphine-like substances (opioids) discovered within our brain. Endorphin production can increase 200% from the beginning to the end of sexual activity. Morphine is a powerful addicting substance. That which the body produces is purer than anything man can snythasize. We know what is in honey... but we can not come close to poducing what a bee does.

. Sex was given to us by God to enjoy in the context of marriage. Outside the context of marriage there are problems with it. Disease and depression are just the tip of the iceberg. One out of three women are sexually abused in some manor before the age of ninteen.

You side stepped a direct question that would put this whole thing in prospective. When you view porn, does it have an intoxicating effect on you? I believe I am a normal red blooded American male. When I see pictures of naked women posed in a sexual manor, endogenous morphine starts to flood my nerveous system. I do not believe this to be an abnormal reaction. When I see a woman dressed seductivly, same reaction. I have talked with a number of men about this, and I have not yet found one where this was not the case. If that does not happen to you, you will be the first.

. What is porn? It is hard to define, but we know it when we see it. Women posing un or partially clad, in manor that starts the drug production process in the viewers body. Viewing a naked body is not a sin. Lusting after a naked body that does not belong to you is a sin. All sin is pleasurable for a time. Food was made to eat and enjoy in context. But gluttoney has a price and eventually suffering is the price one pays for it.

Orgnizdlbr

01-20-2006, 07:52 PM

Sex is created to enjoy in the context of marriage. Outside the context of marriage there are problems with it. Disease and Death are just the tip of the iceberg. One out of three women are sexually abused in some manor before the age of ninteen.

You side stepped a direct question that would put this whole thing in prospective. When you view porn, does it have an intoxicating effect on you? I believe I am a normal red blooded American male. When I see pictures of naked women posed in a sexual manor, adrenaline starts to flood my nerveous system. I do not believe this to be an abnormal reaction. When I see a woman dressed seductivly, same reaction. I have talked with a number of men about this, and I have not yet found one where this was not the case. If that does not happen to you, you will be the first.

. What is porn? It is hard to define, but we know it when we see it. Women posing un or partially clad, in manor that starts the drug production process in the viewers body. Viewing a naked body is not a sin. Lusting after a naked body that does not belong to you is a sin. All sin is pleasurable for a time. Food was made to eat and enjoy in context. But gluttoney has a price and eventually suffering is the price one pays for it.

Cp, I answered much more directly than you have. I may have given you a slightly convoluted answer but you havent addressed much of my post. But thats alright, so here is my view. I as well as most males I know who are red blooded Americans certainly have a reaction when they see a beautiful woman. She doesnt have to be naked CP, or even dressed provocativly, it is a normal human reaction, a reaction, BTW, given to us by GOD. That is, unless the male hits from the other side of the plate so to speak. The statement about burning images into my brain and equating the feeling of seeing a woman in provocative dress or pose to heroin addiction is a bit much. Heroin addiction is a incideous, debilating, chronic habit that is a major problem among our population. Ever see anyone you know die from herion addiction? I have...it aint pretty.

Orgnizdlbr

01-20-2006, 08:05 PM

This may take a while, but here we go.
www.healingsprings.com/ENDORPHINS.htm (http://www.healingsprings.com/ENDORPHINS.htm)
. This is a secular article on the drugs produced in body during the sexual process. First discovered in 1975, endorphins ("endogenous morphine") is one of several morphine-like substances (opioids) discovered within our brain. Endorphin production can increase 200% from the beginning to the end of sexual activity. Morphine is a powerful addicting substance. That which the body produces is purer than anything man can snythasize. We know what is in honey... but we can not come close to poducing what a bee does.

. Sex is created to enjoy in the context of marriage. Outside the context of marriage there are problems with it. Disease and depression are just the tip of the iceberg. One out of three women are sexually abused in some manor before the age of ninteen.

You side stepped a direct question that would put this whole thing in prospective. When you view porn, does it have an intoxicating effect on you? I believe I am a normal red blooded American male. When I see pictures of naked women posed in a sexual manor, endogenous morphine starts to flood my nerveous system. I do not believe this to be an abnormal reaction. When I see a woman dressed seductivly, same reaction. I have talked with a number of men about this, and I have not yet found one where this was not the case. If that does not happen to you, you will be the first.

. What is porn? It is hard to define, but we know it when we see it. Women posing un or partially clad, in manor that starts the drug production process in the viewers body. Viewing a naked body is not a sin. Lusting after a naked body that does not belong to you is a sin. All sin is pleasurable for a time. Food was made to eat and enjoy in context. But gluttoney has a price and eventually suffering is the price one pays for it.

who is nathaniel altman?...secular? Palm reader, Cmon CP, I meant real science, not palm reading......

CenterPointEX

01-20-2006, 08:39 PM

Though they get their information from verifyable secular sources. How about the encyclopedia Columbia is that a trustworthy enough source? www.bartleby.com/65/en/endorphi.html You are correct in saying I did not answer all of your post. As you can see we must exaust a lot of board space when we begin documenting everything.
Ever see anyone you know die from herion addiction? I have...it aint pretty. Forgive me ogb, my posts are a work in progress and Swamp will testify to that. I didn't expect you to post back so quickly.
. The things I am telling about the physiology of sex are easily verifyable. But I am researching them to spare you the trouble. But experience teaches you things other sources can't hold a candle to. I am sure your experience with the heroin addict taught you things about that situation that you could never glean from a publication. So from your experience, do particulary provocative images of sexuality stick vivedly in your brain for a protracted period of time... With myself and all the men I have asked this question the answer is yes. Your answer will be part of my source data bank.

. No, I have not been intimate with Heroin addiction, but I have watched two close friends die from sexual addiction. They were switch hitters to borrow your verbage. Both of them were heavy consumers of the porn industry. Both them had a sex drive that was unquencable. Both of them grew more deviant over the years I knew them. Both died of AIDS. I watched a friend in the grip of a cocaine/meth addiction lose everything he had. The drug addict and the sex addicts traveled a simalar road. The drug addict recovered and is making a comeback. The sex addicts are dead.
. Should you begin to research the famous sexual preditors of the last centry you will discover that the genisis of their deviancy was being sexualy abused, then a diet of porn as they grew into puberty and adulthood. You are what you eat, there is a lot of truth in that. There is an interview with Ted Bundy that illustrates this should you have the time and stomach for it.
. Not everybody who tries Heroin becomes an addict. But everyone who allows heroin to become a habit becomes an addict. The opiate produced by the brain is more powerful than heroin. The body can be trained to produce it in larger and larger quanaties, just like the body can be trained to produce muscle mass. Porn and illicet sex are a treadmill so to speak. The sex addict keeps increasing risk to increase production.
. My buddy the coke addict gave me some of his coke to try once... It was good. I immediatly promised myself I would never buy any. I knew if I ever started I would never stop. There is pleasure in sin.. for a moment, then you pay the piper. Sin is like a reptile, Reptiles as long as they live never quit getting bigger. Their growth is limited only by their lifespan and resources. If you keep feeding Sin or a reptile, eventually you must either kill it or become a slave to it. If you fail to do one or the other you will be devoured by it.

On that note...Dinosaurs still live by the way... Its just that their lifespan and resources aint't what they used to be.

Orgnizdlbr

01-21-2006, 09:30 AM

Though they get their information from verifyable secular sources. How about the encyclopedia Columbia is that a trustworthy enough source? www.bartleby.com/65/en/endorphi.html (http://www.bartleby.com/65/en/endorphi.html) You are correct in saying I did not answer all of your post. As you can see we must exaust a lot of board space when we begin documenting everything.
Forgive me ogb, my posts are a work in progress and Swamp will testify to that. I didn't expect you to post back so quickly.
. The things I am telling about the physiology of sex are easily verifyable. But I am researching them to spare you the trouble. But experience teaches you things other sources can't hold a candle to. I am sure your experience with the heroin addict taught you things about that situation that you could never glean from a publication. So from your experience, do particulary provocative images of sexuality stick vivedly in your brain for a protracted period of time... With myself and all the men I have asked this question the answer is yes. Your answer will be part of my source data bank.

. No, I have not been intimate with Heroin addiction, but I have watched two close friends die from sexual addiction. They were switch hitters to borrow your verbage. Both of them were heavy consumers of the porn industry. Both them had a sex drive that was unquencable. Both of them grew more deviant over the years I knew them. Both died of AIDS. I watched a friend in the grip of a cocaine/meth addiction lose everything he had. The drug addict and the sex addicts traveled a simalar road. The drug addict recovered and is making a comeback. The sex addicts are dead.
. Should you begin to research the famous sexual preditors of the last centry you will discover that the genisis of their deviancy was being sexualy abused, then a diet of porn as they grew into puberty and adulthood. You are what you eat, there is a lot of truth in that. There is an interview with Ted Bundy that illustrates this should you have the time and stomach for it.
. Not everybody who tries Heroin becomes an addict. But everyone who allows heroin to become a habit becomes an addict. The opiate produced by the brain is more powerful than heroin. The body can be trained to produce it in larger and larger quanaties, just like the body can be trained to produce muscle mass. Porn and illicet sex are a treadmill so to speak. The sex addict keeps increasing risk to increase production.
. My buddy the coke addict gave me some of his coke to try once... It was good. I immediatly promised myself I would never buy any. I knew if I ever started I would never stop. There is pleasure in sin.. for a moment, then you pay the piper. Sin is like a reptile, Reptiles as long as they live never quit getting bigger. Their growth is limited only by their lifespan and resources. If you keep feeding Sin or a reptile, eventually you must either kill it or become a slave to it. If you fail to do one or the other you will be devoured by it.

On that note...Dinosaurs still live by the way... Its just that their lifespan and resources aint't what they used to be.

CP, there is no need to ask for forgiveness, this discussion is only discourse between two lineman who happen to disagree on certain issues. I dont disagree with all of you opinions CP, hows that for someone who is a Democrat?

Years ago, when I quit smoking I started running to get my lungs and wind back. I have experienced what the article calls "runners high" I dont equate that to viewing porn. Maybe an individual with a background of abuse or somene who has a genetic flaw is more prone to what you describe as "addictive behavior." I dont know I am not a scientist or doctor.

I have also experienced the "runners wall" I'm sure you have heard of that. Have you ever experienced the "runners wall"?

I grew up in a pretty strict Roman Catholic household. I attended Catholic school for over 7 years before they threw me out. I was taught right from wrong by my father from the very beggining. Maybe if all families did the same the world would be different, I believe there has to be a strong foundation for the house to stand.

LostArt

01-21-2006, 02:12 PM

Holy cow! Remind me that when I notice a title that is "Under God" that it might not lead to sex or porn in topic! :eek: Okay, if noone has a sense of humor after that comment, then please forgive me. But, let me warn ya......after reading a few scriptures in the past, even God has a sense of humor! He still does! He gave us Republicans to laugh at and Democrats to talk about. Or is that the other way? Heh.

Heck, I might be pretty niave.........but, I didn't even know there was porn until I was eighteen or older! I know my children learned it way before then.

Okay..........sorry. Carry on. But, I had to grin at Georgie. He is really posting some deep stuff lately. I'm enjoying it. Keep going....

BTW........CPX......is flirting a sin?

Orgnizdlbr

01-21-2006, 03:41 PM

BTW........CPX......is flirting a sin?

LOL, Jeez I hope not.....

LostArt

01-21-2006, 03:55 PM

LOL, Jeez I hope not.....

:D For some reason I'm thinking of that Billy Joel song. How does it go? :confused:

Anyway, I think I'm with the sinners. Heh. Oh well............

Orgnizdlbr

01-21-2006, 04:04 PM

:D For some reason I'm thinking of that Billy Joel song. How does it go? :confused:

Anyway, I think I'm with the sinners. Heh. Oh well............

Only The Good Die Young
The Stranger Released: 1977 (http://www.billyjoel.com/discography/disco_04.html)

Come out Virginia, don't let me me wait
You Catholic girls start much too late
But sooner or later it comes down to fate
I might as well be the one
They showed you a statue and told you to pray
They built you a temple and locked you away
But they never told you the price that you pay
For things that you might have done...
Only the good die young

You might have heard I run with a dangerous crowd
We ain't too pretty we ain't too proud
We might be laughing a bit too loud
But that never hurt no one
Come on Virginia show me a sign
Send up a signal I'll throw you the line
The stained-glass curtain you're hiding behind
Never lets in the sun
And only the good die young

You got a nice white dress and a party on your confirmation
You got a brand new soul
And a cross of gold
But Virginia they didn't give you quite enough information
You didn't count on me
When you were counting on your rosary

They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
Sinners are much more fun...
And only the good die young

You say your mother told you all that I could give you was a reputation
She never cared for me
But did she ever say a prayer for me?

LostArt

01-21-2006, 08:44 PM

Only The Good Die Young

They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
Sinners are much more fun...
And only the good die young

That's it! :D

Swamprat

01-21-2006, 11:00 PM

Only The Good Die Young
The Stranger Released: 1977

The Best Album Billy ever put out as far as I'm concerned.

CenterPointEX

01-22-2006, 12:37 AM

. I have experienced what the article calls "runners high" I dont equate that to viewing porn. Maybe an individual with a background of abuse or somene who has a genetic flaw is more prone to what you describe as "addictive behavior." I grew up in a pretty strict Roman Catholic household. The opiates produced in the brain are the same, no matter the stimuli that induces production.
.. The RomCat genisis of your faith explains a lot. Like I said in the beginning, The RomCats in particular, rely on "Tradition" as an authority, to the exclusion even of the Bible. Tradition is not God breathed gospel but rather fluid ideas derived of mans reason. Gods word is unchanging, but in contrast to that, things deemed traditon by Popes, have been juxopposed from one Pope to the next. Something incompatable with the RomCat belief that the Pope is God's oracle, and therefor his utterances considered gospel... RomCats are more so students of Tradition, rather than of the Bible and thus the RomCat whole sale production of sexualy liberated Madonnas, Priests, and Priestetts is inevetable.

... All societys that have cast faith in God to the wind have ended up in the same place. Sexual deviancy... one of the most potent weapons in Satans arsenal. Men of note caught in this web... Sampson, David, Abraham, Lott, Lotts wife, Noahs daughters N the list goes on..These deviant societys worship a female fertility goddess. They have given her many names over the milleniums. But they all involve the likes of sexual purification rites attained at the temple with temple prostitutes, male, female and child. You have seen the term Asherites, in the Bible. They were just such a society. An Asherah Pole was a big wooden dildo for lack of a more kosher term. Any how Sodom N Gomorrah in Genisis, even the tribe of Benjamen found in Judges went down this road. Every godless soceity from the beginning til now has become a cesspool of sexual deviancy, where rape becomes a sport.

Judges 19:22 While they were enjoying themselves, some of the wicked men of the city surrounded the house. Pounding on the door, they shouted to the old man who owned the house, "Bring out the man who came to your house so we can have sex with him. 23 The owner of the house went outside and said to them, "No, my friends, don't be so vile. 25 But the men would not listen to him. So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. 26 At daybreak the woman went back to the house and fell down dead at the door and lay there until daylight .

. With no fear of God to stop them, it becomes all about the high. I have been to the wall and experience the high. Its part of the reason I do linework. Back in the day I rode bulls and bareback. These activities are conducive to the production of the aformentioned opiates in the brain. So is sin of any sort.
. Is flirting a sin?...
. If it doesn't hurt them physicaly, is having sex with children a ok? Can a man play with fire and not get burned? Is it possible to use heroin on a daily basis and not become addicted? Is it possible to use Pornography to foster the production of opiates in you brain on a daily basis and not become addicted? Is it a sin to be addicted to sex with your spouse?(if it is, I got a problem) Is it possible for a nation to become a daily consumer of cheap imported oil and not get addicted?(if'n it is not, we got a problem)
. The answer to some of these questions is, possibly, but not probably. Would anyone of you be willing to experiment with one of these things and let me know how it turns out? I have done a little experimenting of my own and found the answer to be no. I don't think my results to be unique. Just so nobody gets any ideas otherwise, sexually abuseing children is one of the most vile, phycologicly damaging, harmful things you could do to them, and is something I would not condone or experiment with under any circumstance. But I use this analogy to point to the direction one heads when he ignores the final authority on this subject... The Bible...

Orgnizdlbr

01-22-2006, 08:28 AM

. The answer to some of these questions is, possibly, but not probably. Would anyone of you be willing to experiment with one of these things and let me know how it turns out? I have done a little experimenting of my own and found the answer to be no. I don't think my results to be unique. Just so nobody gets any ideas otherwise, sexually abuseing children is one of the most vile, phycologicly damaging, harmful things you could do to them, and is something I would not condone or experiment with under any circumstance. But I use this analogy to point to the direction one heads when he ignores the final authority on this subject... The Bible...

You wore me out CP.....you view all things from your perspective and no other....

CenterPointEX

01-22-2006, 08:58 AM

.

You wore me out CP.....you view all things from your perspective and no other..... Don't we all OGB?... this board is sustained for this reason. Some folks view the world thru flash glasses with a yellow tint, some thru rose colored glasses. I view it with my Bible goggles on. I find its the only way not get worn out on it, an give up in despair.

. The definition of Righteousness is knowing and doing what is right according to Gods Word.

. The definition of self righteous is knowing and doing what is right according to self.

Anybody who does not use an absolute, infailable, unchanging, source to define right and wrong is by default "Self Righteous"
There is only one such source. Without exception the texts of the worlds religions are now and have been in flux... save one.
Any casual student of the Bible can attest to the righteoussness of my thoughts on this subject.. For me, right and wrong are not subject to my feelings... My feelings; more often than not, would lead me in a differant direction than Gods word. Gods word is what I use to determine right and wrong. What makes this country so strong is that its principles of right and wrong were garnered directly from the Bible. Half of the men who framed the constitution, held seminary degrees, they were pastors. www.powerlineman.com/lforum/showthread.php?t=1320&page=1&pp=10

Orgnizdlbr

01-22-2006, 12:30 PM

. The definition of Righteousness is knowing and doing what is right according to Gods Word.

. The definition of self righteous is knowing and doing what is right according to self.

Righteous adj 1 acting in a just, upright manner; virtous 2 morally right or justifiable. Websters New World Office Dictionary

Nothing about Gods word CP. And yes, Websters is a purely secular publication.

Cp, you often make argument that criticises the Roman Catholic Church. I too criticise certain things the RC church does. You say that the RC 's traditions and law are not based on the Bible.

Who's Bible do you hold as the true word of God? The Catholics publish their own version. There is the King James Version, also the Gideons version that is found in Hotels an Motels across the nation. There are other versions that profess to be the word of God. Some omit content, others add. Which version do you assert is the true word? Who has translated your version? Are the Apochrophies part of your version? What are the significance of the Dead Sea Scrolls? Do you interpret the "word" yourself or do you have direction from a theologeon or clergyman? You are most absolute in your opininion, from where do you derive such absolute proof of the statements you make? Where is the proof that the version of the word you subscribe to is the true word? Is it an absolute matter of faith that the Scripture you read is the true word, or is there any proof?

Orgnizdlbr

01-22-2006, 12:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CenterPointex. "One Nation Under God"
. For me, right and wrong are not subject to my feelings... My feelings; more often than not, would lead me in a differant direction than Gods word. Gods word is what I use to determine right and wrong. What makes this country so strong is that its principles of right and wrong were garnered directly from the Bible. Half of the men who framed the constitution, held seminary degrees, they were pastors. http://www.powerlineman.com/lforum/...20&page=1&pp=10

Did All of the Framers subscribe to the notion and idea of Christianity? Were there any Diests among the Framers? What was Madison's opinion and perspective on the issue? Why did Thomas Jefferson cut ties with has Alma Mater "The College of William And Mary"?

Again, from secular sources substantiate your assertion.

CenterPointEX

01-22-2006, 03:12 PM

This is a transcript Of an 1892 Supreme Court decision. Minds loftier have come to the same conclusion. But I am working on secular documentation on the deist thing http://www.languageandlaw.org/TEXTS/CASES/HOLYTRIN.HTM this is an excerpt from that decision

. There is a universal language pervading them all, having one meaning. They affirm and reaffirm that this is a religious nation. These are not individual sayings, declarations of private persons. They are organic utterances. They speak the voice of the entire people. While because of a general recognition of this truth the question has seldom been presented to the courts, yet we find that in Updegraph v. Com., 11 Serg. & R. 394, 400, it was decided that, 'Christianity, general Christianity, is, and always has been, a part of the common law of Pennsylvania; * * * not Christianity with an established church and tithes and spiritual courts, but Christianity with liberty of conscience to all men.'
WWW.Dictionary.com also secualr
Righteousness.
1. Morally upright; without guilt or sin: a righteous parishioner.
2. In accordance with virtue or morality: a righteous judgment.
3. Morally justifiable: righteous anger. See Synonyms at moral.
While according to the Bible is not overt in this definition, it is implied. Left where it is we will have to debate the authoritive source of right and wrong. Without an infalible authority, right and wrong are relative, and thus there is no such thing. But at the end of the day, Gods laws are written upon our hearts and inherantly we know the truth. Should you try to disagree with that your conscience will betray you.

Orgnizdlbr

01-22-2006, 06:37 PM

This is a transcript Of an 1892 Supreme Court decision. Minds loftier have come to the same conclusion. But I am working on secular documentation on the deist thing http://www.languageandlaw.org/TEXTS/CASES/HOLYTRIN.HTM this is an excerpt from that decision

. There is a universal language pervading them all, having one meaning. They affirm and reaffirm that this is a religious nation. These are not individual sayings, declarations of private persons. They are organic utterances. They speak the voice of the entire people. While because of a general recognition of this truth the question has seldom been presented to the courts, yet we find that in Updegraph v. Com., 11 Serg. & R. 394, 400, it was decided that, 'Christianity, general Christianity, is, and always has been, a part of the common law of Pennsylvania; * * * not Christianity with an established church and tithes and spiritual courts, but Christianity with liberty of conscience to all men.'

One need look no further than the Constitution or for that matter understand history to know why this Nation was founded. My question remains, what is the "true" word? What is the "correct" version of the Bible?

You will find, I believe, that more of the Framers, were Diests than let on. As a starter, look at Madison and Jefferson, see what you can come up with. I believe you'll find facts that are contrary to what some right wing Evangilicals would have the Nation believe. But that is for another day, a different discussion on how so called believers "buy" influence with the tithes of their congregations. Lets see what we can learn about the Framers and the "true" version of the word first. Then I'd love to hear about some of the other things Ive mentioned......more to come.

CenterPointEX

01-22-2006, 10:32 PM

If we have a God who can create all that we know out of nothing, we have a God who can perserve his word for us. Anyone who makes the argument about translation is not a student of the Bible. If we translate the big river to Spanish it is the El Rio Grande trasnliterated to English, The River Big. Nothing is lost in the translation or transliteration. We have more documantation on the genisis of the Bible than we do any other literary work in history.
. The true word? Here is how we know what is and is not to be included in the Bible. Gods word is unchanging. If you use Scripture to interpret scripture you can not go wrong. It teaches the same thing from Genisis to Revelation. Should a letter or work show up that someone claims is inspired by God. It will be easy to determine if or not this is the case by its content. The books you mentioned inserted in the middle of the Catholic Bible were of suspect origen and contain ideology that disagrees with the whole of Scripture. They do contain legitimate history. But also do they contain heresy that does not agree with the rest of scripture. The dudes who inserted them had no justification other than "Tradition" which I mentioned in my earlier disertation on RomCats...

. The Biggest problem with the apocrapha,,,, Mary Veneration... other than the angels proclamation 'Blessed are you among women" there is no evidence for it outside the apocrahpa. Over the millenuims, even Gods people were tempted to bring in the Pegan Goddess worship. Mary as the "MOther of God" is just such an amimal. Same status as the Wife of Nimrod from Genisis was elevated to in Babylon. It for all practical purposes elevates her to the status of Co Redeemer. A sinless human... A goddess,the only sinless human. Everywhere else the Bible claims that every human is born in sin. These books do not agree with the whole of Scripture.

. I use a Parallel Bible with four translatins side by side. King James, Niv, Living (paraphrase), and NASB. King James though hard to read is helpful because they strived towards transliteration when they could, therefor it is good for doing word studies. The Living Bible is helpful in that they did not even attempt transliteration but rather sought to translate forth the meaning of a passage, thus word studies are almost impossible, but it makes it easy to read long passages and get the jist of whats going on. The NIV stands in the middle of these two. While the words change here and there, from one translation to the next, the jist does not. Like I said we have more manuscript evidence for the Bible than we do any other historical work. Jesus quoted and accepted the Old Testimat Works as Gods word. Now whether or not the historicity of Jesus is truth is another can of worms. Which I will not deal with at this Point except to Point out that if we can trust him we can trust the books he accepted as gospel.

. Now there are translations out there like the New World Translation done by the Jehovahs Wittnesses where some one has gone in and just changed what they wanted to, to suit their needs. No one who worked on the New World Translation knew any Greek or Hebrew. They made their translations from English to English with a goal in mind. That was to do away with the notion that Jesus was God. The problem with those versions is that even after their purging, they still contain truths which when put side by side with thier changes disagree, showing the translation to be unreliable.

. Mans works in contrast to the Bible are always changing, The Koran is fluid and self conflicting as is the Book of Mormon. We still have origional copies of the Book of Mormon. Lain side by side they don't even come close to being unchanging, in that what they taught origionally does not match what they teach now. Brigham Young rewrote a lot of it cause he was an intelligent fella and saw that it would not stand like it was, unlike Joseph Smith its author.

. The Dead sea scrolls have only cemented the trustworthyness of later manuscripts in that fragments from them can be matched of with the later manuscripts, confirming the unchangedness of them. Hebrew scribes were so meticulas that they had dudes whose job it was to count the letters in a copy an the origional. If they did not add up the copy was destroyed.

Swamprat

01-22-2006, 11:08 PM

If we have a God who can create all that we know out of nothing, we have a God who can perserve his word for us. Anyone who makes the argument about translation is not a student of the Bible. If we translate the big river to Spanish it is the El Rio Grande trasnliterated to English, The River Big. Nothing is lost in the translation or transliteration. We have more documantation on the genisis of the Bible than we do any other literary work in history.
. The true word? Here is how we know what is and is not to be included in the Bible. Gods word is unchanging. If you use Scripture to interpret scripture you can not go wrong. It teaches the same thing from Genisis to Revelation. Should a letter or work show up that someone claims is inspired by God. It will be easy to determine if or not this is the case by its content. The books you mentioned inserted in the middle of the Catholic Bible were of suspect origen and contain ideology that disagrees with the whole of Scripture. They do contain legitimate history. But also do they contain heresy that does not agree with the rest of scripture. The dudes who inserted them had no justification other than "Tradition" which I mentioned in my earlier disertation on RomCats...
. I use a Parallel Bible with four translatins side by side. King James, Niv, Living (paraphrase), and NASB. King James though hard to read is helpful because they strived towards transliteration when they could, therefor it is good for doing word studies. The Living Bible is helpful in that they did not even attempt transliteration but rather sought to translate forth the meaning of a passage, thus word studies are almost impossible, but it makes it easy to read long passages and get the jist of whats going on. The NIV stands in the middle of these two. While the words change here and there, from one translation to the next, the jist does not. Like I said we have more manuscript evidence for the Bible than we do any other historical work. Jesus quoted and accepted the Old Testimat Works as Gods word. Now whether or not the historicity of Jesus is truth is another can of worms. Which I will not deal with at this Point except to Point out that if we can trust him we can trust the books he accepted as gospel.
. Now there are translations out there like the New World Translation done by the Jehovahs Wittnesses where some one has gone in and just changed what they wanted to, to suit their needs. No one who worked on the New World Translation knew any Greek or Hebrew. They made their translations from English to English with a goal in mind. That was to do away with the notion that Jesus was God. The problem with those versions is that even after their purging, they still contain truths which when put side by side with thier changes disagree, showing the translation to be unreliable.
. Mans works in contrast to the Bible are always changing, The Koran is fluid and self conflicting as is the Book of Mormon. We still have origional copies of the Book of Mormon. Lain side by side they don't even come close to being unchanging, in that what they taught origionally does not match what they teach now. Brigham Young rewrote a lot of it cause he was an intelligent fella and saw that it would not stand like it was, unlike Joseph Smith its author.
. The Dead sea scrolls have only cemented the trustworthyness of later manuscripts in that fragments from them can be matched of with the later manuscripts, confirming the unchangedness of them. Hebrew scribes were so meticulas that they had dudes whose job it was to count the letters in a copy an the origional. If they did not add up the copy was destroyed.

What is your opinion of the "Urantia Book" CP? I have a hard copy of it...and the concordex. Look it up on Google. I doubt you're familiar with it. What's your opinion on it?

CenterPointEX

01-23-2006, 06:01 AM

What is your opinion of the "Urantia Book" CP? If you read the above post Swamp you will find that a new revelations truth can be determined by their agreement or not with the whole of scripture.
. Before Jesus asked Peter about the sheep thing, He said, "Some folks say I am just a great teacher, some a great Prophet, some say I'm just a man,... who do you say that "I Am"." Peter answered that question correctly. All cults can be easiely identified because the very first thing they do... is revmove the Godhood of Jesus/displace him as "the Son of God" The Mormans do it, The JW's do it, the Koran does it, the Unitairins do it, in the sense that Mary is the MOther of God, the Catholics do it... and to get to the subject at hand... The Urantia does it. It is nothing more than repackeged HInduism, New Ageism, which is not new age at all, but repackeged worship of Isis and Osiris,/The Nimrod of Genisis and his wife/ "The great archetect of the Universe" If you will notice Swamp... it is not neccessary to clog board space with entire quotes, there is a way around that.Well Labor, I won't really say anything to you about the book, to give you any basis to form any opinion by what I might say. One that takes years to read, and gives Volumes of things to ponder..... What does a Morman Scientoligist have to say when he knocks on your door?... Nothing/Urantia...
..... Its like... "The very sun, moon and stars, then when all things considered, righteousness and the Son, after the Father, the communion in all things is where this leads to."
.... Like Swamp says, it take a long time to read and when someone asks you what is all about, you give an answer like the one Swamp gave. The dude tha t wrote it is a channeler... I'm thinkin maybe Swamp was on the other end of the channel...

Orgnizdlbr

01-23-2006, 01:49 PM

Now there are translations out there like the New World Translation done by the Jehovahs Wittnesses where some one has gone in and just changed what they wanted to, to suit their needs. No one who worked on the New World Translation knew any Greek or Hebrew. They made their translations from English to English with a goal in mind. That was to do away with the notion that Jesus was God. The problem with those versions is that even after their purging, they still contain truths which when put side by side with thier changes disagree, showing the translation to be unreliable.

. Mans works in contrast to the Bible are always changing, The Koran is fluid and self conflicting as is the Book of Mormon. We still have origional copies of the Book of Mormon. Lain side by side they don't even come close to being unchanging, in that what they taught origionally does not match what they teach now. Brigham Young rewrote a lot of it cause he was an intelligent fella and saw that it would not stand like it was, unlike Joseph Smith its author.

. The Dead sea scrolls have only cemented the trustworthyness of later manuscripts in that fragments from them can be matched of with the later manuscripts, confirming the unchangedness of them. Hebrew scribes were so meticulas that they had dudes whose job it was to count the letters in a copy an the origional. If they did not add up the copy was destroyed.

How then, can anyone be certain that at any time all versions of the Bible have not been altered? Again, my question is, does it come down to purely a matter of faith, is it that you believe that the versions of the Bible have been preserved in the pristine form of the original words put on the paper? Is there more proof that you can give me which would convince someone that yours is "THE Version?"

What is your opinion of the Gnostic Gospels? The Gnostic Gospels were found in or around the late 1940s.

what is your take on the "Sang Raal" what or who was the Sang Raal, what are the implications if the Sang Rall was indeed a person?

Orgnizdlbr

01-23-2006, 03:36 PM

What is your opinion of the "Urantia Book" CP? I have a hard copy of it...and the concordex. Look it up on Google. I doubt you're familiar with it. What's your opinion on it?

Swamp, what is the Urantia Book?

Swamprat

01-23-2006, 04:58 PM

Swamp, what is the Urantia Book?

Well Labor, I won't really say anything to you about the book, to give you any basis to form any opinion by what I might say.

All I'll say is, it is a VERY interesting book. One that takes years to read, and gives Volumes of things to ponder....

Check out this link, do a little reading, and tell me what you think the Urantia book is.

http://www.urantia.org/

LostArt

01-23-2006, 06:59 PM

Check out this link, do a little reading, and tell me what you think the Urantia book is.

http://www.urantia.org/

Whoa. No cliff notes on this one Georgie. Read it and give us a highlight buddy. :D

CenterPointEX

01-23-2006, 07:26 PM

How then, can anyone be certain that at any time all versions of the Bible have not been altered? Again, my question is, does it come down to purely a matter of faith,? Well, in that vein, how can we trust any history. Like I said, we have more ancient manuscripts of the Bible, unchanged from then til now than we have of any other literay work. There are over 5000 prophecys in the Bible that have been fulfilled. No other book of faith claims even one that came to pass. The Mormans are batting 0.00 , and they have had a boat load of Prophesys with dates that have come an gone. Also like I said, archeology, history, etc. back up what is written even of the acient times. The Jews were pretty meticulas in guarding the word from this kinda thing. The letters that make up the new testiment were in circulation at a time when witnesses that could have called B.S. were around. But they didn't. But you are correct in one thing... at the end of the day, no man will ever come to God by reason. You gotta come by faith. Every great scholar who ever set out to disprove the Bible; after examining the evidence, had no choice but to accept it as truth. If you followed in their footsteps you would end up in the same place. But you won't go there if'n you don't want to. Cause ya see... God gave us free will... and we are in bondage to free will... as oxymoronic as that might seem. Did I just say oxymoronic?.... I need to lay off the Urntia...?

Swamprat

01-23-2006, 08:20 PM

I need to lay off the Urntia...?

Well, first ya need to learn how to spell it. :-) :-)

LostArt

01-23-2006, 08:36 PM

LMAO! Oh man............maybe that is how CP pronounces it Swamp. :D

Swamprat

01-23-2006, 10:28 PM

Urine Tia... kinda reminds me of my uncles drunk exwife... and that old Jerry Jeff tune... That fits her to a tea...Tee... "T" nuver did sey ah could spell Butt I tri reel heart... try backin off the drag, it flows easier that way?
anyhow back to the Jerry Jeff tune...

"Pissin in the wind...
Pissin all over my friends...
Were gonna laugh and grin and tell our grand children."

Spoken like a true Urineteeteeist?...Boink!

Backed ya into a corner huh CP?

When ya ain't got shit to say, ya start talkin like an asshole. Come on man, you talk your stuff. You ain't got shit to say bout The Urantia book cause you ain't got a clue what it is.

Just like you ain't got a clue about the Movie Left Behind....Which You SHOULD know about. It was only show in Churches first. Really pretty good flicks. When ya get time from your preachin, ya ought to check em out. Really good. Fill all the proficys and the pre destiny of the bible you're talkin bout.

CenterPointEX

01-23-2006, 10:43 PM

Swamprat

01-23-2006, 11:08 PM

The dude that wrote your book is a self proclaimed channeler SWamp...
. I have read all the "left behind" series. The Rapture is relativley new concept in that it arivived around 1832 I think... The brainchild of a Pastor John Nelson Darby... I do not completely agree with his escatology, but that is irrelevant, in that all of Christendom agrees that your escatological view; i.e. Pre-mill, post-mill, A-mill etc., does not affect your Salvation... and more important, most all of us, except those of us walking the earth when it goes down, will enter judgement day not thru a rapture, but thru death.
. I apologise butt I was just having a little fun with the New Age title chosen by your channeler... Please forgive me... Do you know what a channeler is Swamp?... Butt I digress... HHuMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

CP...you're "babbling". I'm talkin bout a MOVIE!!

http://www.powerlineman.com/lforum/showthread.php?t=1295

It might have been a book, but I'm talkin bout the MOVIE!

"The Rapture is relativley new concept in that it arivived around 1832"

CP....The Rapture...Revelation...The Bible...."arrived around 1832?"

Wake up man...put the beer down. A "relatively new concept" huh....

I'm worried bout ya CP.....
Thought we had a discussion goin on here. You've just sorta "Checked out" and gone to "babblin".

LostArt

01-24-2006, 07:21 AM

Cliff notes!!!

Swamp, CP is talking about who came up with concept of a "rapture" because of some scriptures in the Bible.

If I remember correctly it is the Pre-tribulation that is a group that believes in the rapture. They believe that the Lord will save them from the Tribulation (the end of time....when things really get rough).

Then you have the Mid-tribs and the Post-tribs....but that's getting really indepth....and I'm not up to it before school time!:D

CP might post like he is tipping the bottle a bit but, he didn't come up with these concepts! :D

dungnfam

01-24-2006, 09:01 AM

God is beyond all of us. We can't comprehend Him. To find God you have to look toward Jesus Christ because the only chance you have to be saved is through God's grace in your faith as Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior from your sin. Don't forget, we all sin. Christians are just forgiven.

CenterPointEX

01-24-2006, 06:57 PM

CP...you're "babbling". I'm talkin bout a MOVIE!! It might have been a book, but I'm talkin bout the MOVIE!"The Rapture is relativley new concept in that it arivived around 1832? CP....The Rapture...Revelation...The Bible...."arrived around 1832?" . A "relatively new concept" huh....
. I'm sorry Swamp, I posted what I did under the assumption that you saw the movie and knew what it was about. I read all the Left Behind books. The were written by Tim Lehay. The are based on a view of the end times theory that was first presented by a Pastor John Nelson Darby in 1832. All the stuff that happens in the movie;stuff that first happened in a series of popular books by the way, is conjecture based on Scripture. The theory sets forth a series of events that begin when all the believers are taken off the earth into Christs realm. Then an antiChrist comes to power. After seven years of trouble Christ comes and whacks him and rules on earth for 1000 years. Then the devil is set loose or the earth and set up the battle of Armageddon, which never happens cause Christ comes on the scene and whacks the Devil at which point all men are judged.
Before 1832, all of Christendom new nothhing of a rapture like event. Except on the last day when all believers are taken up into Christ and the unbelievers sent to the other place. Anyhow its some pretty deep stuff and there has been much debate on it in Christendom. But like I said all of Christendom agrees that it does not matter what you believe about the specific events of the end time or how they go down. It does not affect your salvation. N like I said, most folks will enter the endtimes or the last day, or the judgement, whatever you want to call it, thru death, unless you happen to be one of the people who are walkin the earth when it goes down.

Swamprat

01-24-2006, 07:41 PM

stuff that first happened in a series of popular books by the way, is conjecture based on Scripture.

"Conjecture...based on Scripture". Interesting.

Translation? Hollywoods version of the Book of Revelation. AND I might add, I thought it was pretty cool....course YOU "read the book". By my understanding, the movies weren't too off base from Revelation.

Guess we'll just have to sit back and wait for the "times", huh man.
I mean...It's all Pre Destiney. It's GONNA happen, we been TOLD in the Good book.
All we got to do is make a decision. Neat thing about bein a "christian" is....after the true believers were taken....us..."second thoughters"...still got a chance.

I like that....

CenterPointEX

01-25-2006, 07:45 PM

Hollywoods version of the Book of Revelation...after the true believers were taken....us..."second thoughters"...still got a chance. I like that.... Therin lies the problem Swamp... this theory gives those who chose not to give themselves to Chirst in this life the false hope that they will get another chance should the whole thing turn out not to be a myth... Swamp you can look at Mt. Rushmore and know it and know evolution didn't put them faces up there. You can look at creation Swamp and know it didn't happen by no cosmic accident.
. Swamp, the choice to live by your own will, rather than Gods will, gets ratified the minute you take your last breath.
. And it is not Hollywoods rendention of Revelation, but rather Hollywoods rendention of a theory first submitted by Darby, and popularized in a series of fictional books based on that theory written by Tim Lehay and Jerry Jenkins.

....Jenkins and Lehay will conceed that it is just a theory, but they think it is a pretty good one. And they will also conceed that your Salvation does not depend on whether or not you ascribe to that theory, but rather, whether or not are a repentent sinner,believing you are deserving of Gods eternal damnation and you are in need of a savior. And you believe and accept that Jesus Christ, Gods only Son paid that penalty of death for you.

Swamprat

01-25-2006, 09:01 PM

Therin lies the problem Swamp... this theory gives those who chose not to give themselves to Chirst in this life the false hope that they will get another chance... Swamp, the choice to live by you own will, rather than Gods will, gets ratified the minute you take your last breath.

So, after the initial rapture....we're all ****ed, Right? Shoulda Woulda, Coulda...

Naw.
I just don't beleive in that type of "god".
Reference back to a post where I asked you, "Why God created us". Is our creation a Game to him? Ya can't be a good person and go to heaven, without swearing alligance to jesus christ?

Naw....I just can't sign up for that. Besides...It's all Pre Destiny. It's all written in the bible how it's gonna go down, right? Can't do nothin bout it...just ride along and either accept JC or not.

That's wrong.

CenterPointEX

01-25-2006, 09:49 PM

Is our creation a Game to him? Ya can't be a good person and go to heaven, without swearing alligance to jesus christ? Naw....I just can't sign up for that. Besides...It's all Pre Destiny. Can't do nothin bout it...just ride along and either accept JC or not...That's wrong.
He created us in his image Swamp. He gave us free will. If we didn't have free will we would not be in his image. He gave us a soul that will never cease to exist. If we are in his image how could it be otherwise. If we want to live with him, we must put our trust in him, trust that his way is the right way, rather than in pride chose that our way is the right way.
. Why would a good God force us to spend eternity trusting in him, if it was something that we could not accept and chose not to do.
. I repeat myself, Hell is pretty much, knowing you coulda been with him forever enjoying fellowship with him...
. To take a crack at L.A.'s question,... Friends.... Friends are life... Think about how it is one feels when he is with a friend... Mr. Batts maybe you can just imagine... It's good just to be around them, to share with them life... When ya go back to your H.S. reunion, and ya see em again... It's like you were never apart... If they don't want to be your friend, would you force em to be around you?... If they don't want to be your friend, should you kill them? Course not...

. Somebody asked me once, "If you were God, what would you do?".... I didn't have to think about it but for a split second... I grinned real big... And said in my best God voice...."I would 'make' some friends" No pun intended...

Swamprat

01-25-2006, 11:06 PM

He created us in his image Swamp. He gave us free will. If we didn't have free will we would not be in his image. He gave us a soul that will never cease to exist.

OK, so he created us in his image. Some of us, the Mold got screwed up I guess.

Ya know man, I believe you can be a good person, and accept the word of "what's right", and proceed in the "great plan' just fine. Ya don't need to be rantin and ravin bout jesus to be saved, or...."proceed" in the plan. Jesus was a messanger, to deliver the Word and the plan.

So,
"A soul that will never cease to exist."

Well, THAT's Another topic. I believe in the Body, the Soul and the Karma. The Karma never ceases to exist. The body dies. The Soul, goes with that body. The Karma of that body....goes on, and on, and on......

CenterPointEX

01-28-2006, 06:38 AM

OK, so he created us in his image. Some of us, the Mold got screwed up I guess. Ya know man, I believe you can be a good person, and accept the word of "what's right", and proceed in the "great plan' just fine. Ya don't need to be rantin and ravin bout jesus to be saved, or...."proceed" in the plan. Jesus was a messanger, to deliver the Word and the plan. The problem is Swamp, you can not be a good person... The standard for being a good person is like you always say, "Follow the ten commandments." Swamp, CPX, and L.A. break some of the ten commandments everyday. Now the penalty Swamp for breaking just one of the ten commandments is death, hell, eternal damnation. So basicly, like you said n an earlier post, "We are all F___ed." But God made a way around that in Jesus Chist.
. . . The mold is not broke... but because we have free will;, we chose to break Gods law i.e. that which makes you good. We choose to follow our own way instead of Gods way, and that is what gets us in trouble. But you see Swamp, if you give your will to him, he will make you good. He will impart to you the ability to sin no more. But first the penalty for your sins has to be paid... Jesus the sinless one came and did that for Swamp... It is a gift Swamp in exercising his free will refuses to accept... If you want to know all this is true scoop Swamp, get on your knees, pray to God, tell him you are a sinner, that you want to change, and that you put your trust in him and want want him to change you. If he does reveal himself to you Swamp, go down to your local bible preaching church, take the pastor out to dinner, and tell him its on CPX...If he don't reaveal himself to you Swamp and let you know that all this Is real... I will be a monkeys uncle. I will send you a dinner for two at your choice of local restraunts. Its your Choice Swamp, its yours for the taking....Your "Centerpoint"....IS????... Have YOU Looked at the book? :-) NOT... BTW...Ya never mentioned my Coment on "Pre Destiny"..."Sign up or be Damned". I got to say, God's got a sense of humor. Pre-destination... predistination is a big can of worms Swamp, but the bottem line is if ya fall off one side of that issue you say "man is in control, and therfor is his own savior"... and if'n ya fall off the other side ya say, "man can do what ever he wants cause that is what God predistined him to do"... Question..."If God has predestined who will be saved and who will not, why should I tell anyone about him?"... Answer, "Because God commands it."
i.e.

Orgnizdlbr

01-29-2006, 09:53 AM

WhereDid The Urantia Book Come From?

In the early 20th century, a physician practicing in Chicago became the head of a group known as the Contact Commission. This small group was the focal point for the production of, and the primary custodian for, the final text of The Urantia Book. They were sworn not to disclose details about the transactions in order to preclude future generations from venerating the participants. It was considered important that no individual might be exalted through their association with The Urantia Book. Because of its revelatory nature, the book stands on its own merit, nature and content.

As the contents of The Urantia Book were being transcribed, the Urantia Papers were read to, and questions were requested from "The Forum," a group that had been meeting regularly for discussions at the doctor's house. The answers to these questions were then incorporated into the papers. These early readers formed the first core group of believers in the revelation and became committed to the mission of bringing the teachings of The Urantia Book to the world.

A Brief Description of The Urantia Book...

The Urantia Book, first published by the Urantia Foundation in 1955, was authored by celestial beings as a special revelation to our planet, Urantia.

Swamp, one of my charector flaws, a life long afliction BTW, is that I am a skeptic. Lets just say that the very limited time I spent on the Urantia page made me very skeptical. I am much too old, too much of a creature of habit and too much of a practicalist to bite on the celestial being revelation.... Also I have no idea why this text is so large or came out this way...

LostArt

01-29-2006, 09:57 AM

Also I have no idea why this text is so large or came out this way...

I don't know Georgie, but it sure scared me! More than the Urantia site! :D

Swamprat

01-29-2006, 02:15 PM

Swamp, one of my charector flaws, a life long afliction BTW, is that I am a skeptic. Lets just say that the very limited time I spent on the Urantia page made me very skeptical. I am much too old, too much of a creature of habit and too much of a practicalist to bite on the celestial being revelation.... Also I have no idea why this text is so large or came out this way...

Now you know why I wouldn't say anything about it. I'm a skeptic too. my first thought was....Ok, it was written by extra terrestials. So.....like how did "they' actually get these transcripts down here to earth? AND, in 1955 what form were they in.....AND, Who did they give them to? AND, they talked about "translating" them...what sort of "writings" were they? I'm sure they weren't on an 8 track tape!!!

If you ever actually see the book, it's size and shear volume of pages and words is impressive. Quite obviously, it took a LONG time to write. I find it hard to believe it was written as a joke. It's just something I pick up and ponder on ocassion, and wonder why the guys who got it in 1955 won't say where or how they got. Anyway, Its interesting. No harder to "believe" than some of the stuff in the bible I guess. :-) :-)

Swamprat

01-29-2006, 02:19 PM

I don't have a clue how ya did that with the text Labor, but it's sorta cool. Makes it alot easier to read!:-) If ya figure it out, let us know.

Swamprat

01-30-2006, 09:11 AM

Orgnizdlbr

01-30-2006, 06:44 PM

Damn, figured it out labor.

Took me half hr. to figure it out, and you just lucked onto it.

I don't THINK so! :D
Pretty cool man.....

Swamp, mine really got posted by accident.....probably used the font from Urantia....I'm gonna play around some though....if every one posts in bold I might not need my glasses on the PC LoL ;)

Orgnizdlbr

01-30-2006, 06:46 PM

Damn, figured it out labor.

Took me half hr. to figure it out, and you just lucked onto it.

I don't THINK so! :D
Pretty cool man.....

Wow, I can see without glasses...!

Swamprat

01-30-2006, 07:05 PM

Swamp, mine really got posted by accident.....probably used the font from Urantia....I'm gonna play around some though....if every one posts in bold I might not need my glasses on the PC LoL ;)

Well, my theory is "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". How I been writin has worked just fine for me for bout 4 years or so....

But thanks for spurrin my curosity and makin me "look around"!:) It is cool to be able to add a bit of "Spice" every now and then when ya want to! :-)

You're right, It would make it a hell of alot easier to read if everybody would post in at LEAST 3...but....THAT ain't gonna happen.:-) Maby Byron could just MAKE the default 3....for us..."Visually challanged" individuals. :D

Cool man, Thanks.

Swamprat

01-30-2006, 10:44 PM

LostArt

01-31-2006, 05:26 PM

HEY WATCH WHO YOU CALL DEAD BEATS BUSTER!!! :D

And for those that want to play in the sand pile with Labor and Swamp.....here ya go:

http://www.powerlineman.com/lforum/misc.php?do=bbcode

Swamprat

01-31-2006, 07:53 PM

Or, just go to User CP, Click on user Options...scroll to the bottom and choose

Enhanced Interface Full. Now ya got the whole toolbar.

LostArt

01-31-2006, 08:42 PM

That two! :D Heh. I'm so use to that option already chosen for you, that I didn't know you could even do that! LOL!

(Don't tell anyone I'm a mod on another site..........PLEASE! :D )

CenterPointEX

01-31-2006, 09:20 PM

So...Bunch of deadbeats on this thread huh? Nobody's EVEN got a take on Urantia huh?Figures. Most people wouldn't say Shit...if they had a mouthfull.:rolleyes: The rest, too dumb to even know what the hell we're talkin bout....And...that's where we are....Since you insist Swamp, let me back up on the channeler thing, The authors claim that is how the book came into being. A dude was sleeping and being used as a speaker for aliens and these two other dudes wrote down what he was saying. That is the premise.
. . . The authors are actually two former Seventh Day Adventists, Dr. William S. Sadler and his brother-in-law, Wilfred Custer Kellogg, who lived with the Sadlers in Chicago. Dr. Sadler, taught at Chicago’s McCormick Theological Seminary. A lot of the material comes from Dr. Saddlers earlier works. Some of it comes from 7th Day Adventists doctrines, and a buttload of it comes plagerized from 15 other books, that are chronicled by a fella named Matthew Block, a former Urinteeteeist... This a link to Matthews paper.
www.squarecircles.com/matarticles/firstarticle/sourcesoftheurantiabook.htm
Although there is a lot of good science in the urantia, courtesy of Dr. Sadlers education... Sadders education; like is that of all men, is faillable, and therefor there is some wrong science in it. Ditto on the theology...

CenterPointEX

02-01-2006, 07:55 PM

During the plagerizing process Swamp, he mucked a lot of it up into unintelligable babble, but if you look at Matthews paper you will see the "word for word" plagerizing and also the idea for idea plagerizing. Why would a fella do something like this? A curious question.

Swamprat

02-01-2006, 10:02 PM

A curious question.

It's ALL a "curious question" CP. That's why I'm still lookin for the answer man. For everybody that's got Answers....I got questions...they can't answer. Oh...they can answer em, but, well...yea get my drift. Most answer's to my questions are all "faith based". I ain't real big on "Faith". And to me, the bible is a multi transcribed, "good book"...of arab exadurated... stories.

That's right...Arab stories. I really don't see the difference between jews and arabs...cept for the holicast, which brought them to prominance.

If YOUR god has chosen the Jews as "His" People....what's the rest of us "outcasts" to do? Suck hind tit?

Like I said....I don't believe in a God like that.

CenterPointEX

02-02-2006, 06:50 PM

So...Bunch of deadbeats on this thread huh? Nobody's EVEN got a take on Urantia huh?
Any comments on the information I provided on Urantia Swamp? Did you check out the link?. . . The authors of Urantia are actually two former Seventh Day Adventists, Dr. William S. Sadler and his brother-in-law, Wilfred Custer Kellogg, who lived with the Sadlers in Chicago. A lot of the material comes from Dr. Saddlers earlier works. Some of it comes from 7th Day Adventists doctrines, and a buttload of it comes plagerized from 15 other books, that are chronicled by a fella named Matthew Block, a former Urinteeteeist...

"If YOUR god has chosen the Jews as "His" People....what's the rest of us "outcasts" to do? Suck hind tit?"

This question is anticipated by Paul and specificly addressed in the book of Romans Swamp. The answer is that the Jews are not a people of one race... but rather they are a people of one mind... and yes, folks who refuse to be of the mind of Jesus Christ have a problem... I implore you Swamp, read the book of Romans and give us your take on it.It's ALL a "curious question" CP. That's why I'm still lookin for the answer man. If you want answers Swamp go to the man... he will reveal himself to you, I promise you... Get on you knees and ask him if he isreal, then hang on.

Swamprat

02-02-2006, 10:12 PM

Get on you knees and ask him if he isreal, then hang on.

It's all Pre Destiny CP. You haven't spoken nothin bout that man....

The bible gives us the map of what's gonna happen...We're just on "gods railroad" man. You're GONNA Ride it. AND....The Purpose of God puttin us on His own personal Railroad IS???
Interesting "God".

Make your choices along the way.
BUT...According to the Bible...The Life of Planet Earth...is Pre-Destin..."God" has already told us what's gonna happen.

"Quite obviously, the world is unfolding as it should"..."Desidrada".

I got time to repent. Reference "Left behind".

CenterPointEX

02-02-2006, 10:51 PM

"I got time to repent." Hattie Durham, Left Behind
Pre destination...
. . . Sometimes when we as a society, let folks go from prison, we know almost without a doubt that they won't stay free for long. We pretty much know that they wil go out and do another crime. Some we can pretty much predict wont be back... But still we let the bad dudes go Swamp.

.... Jesus told a parable about the kingdom of heaven Swamp.

.... While a farmer was sleeping, his enemy came a planted weeds among his wheat... The workers when discovering this came and asked the farmer if they should pull up the weeds. The farmer said no, because the roots of the wheat would be harmed in the process. Wait until the crop is ripe, then harvest the wheat to be brought unto me, and pull up the weeds and cast them into the fire.
. . . The wheat is those who have put their trust in Christ, the weeds are those who have not.

Even though he gave us free will Swamp, he knows from the beginning who will chose him and who will not. All he asks is for us to trust him. In the sense that he knows who will and who won't, he has predestined where we will go after this life here on earth. Where you will end up Swamp is predetermined by the Choice you make or have already made in Gods knowledge.

Swamprat

02-02-2006, 11:18 PM

[QUOTE=CenterPointEXEven though he gave us free will Swamp, he knows from the beginning who will chose him and who will not. All he asks is for us to trust him. In the sense that he knows who will and who won't, he has predestined where we will go after this life here on earth. Where you will end up Swamp is predetermined by the Choice you make or have already made in Gods knowledge.[/QUOTE]

So That's Pre Destine too huh? He knows from conception..who will "choose" him and who won't.

Know CP...I'm likin your God less and less, the more you speak.

You make it sound like "God" is Playin a game with us...His creations...
He pre destines how things are gonna go on our planet...and now you're tellin me he knows whether I'm gonna "accept" him or not.

Dude...I'll read Urantia a bit more. least they got a more realistic take than you appear to have.

You're just "Real focused" CP. Have they Paved that ONE WAY Street you live on lately??

CenterPointEX

02-03-2006, 10:31 AM

Swamp, God gave you the freedom of "Choice". What more could you ask for? What differance does it make, if he knows what choice you will make? You have the freedom to look me up and put an end to my earthly dialog. But you see Swamp, there are consequences to the "Choices" you make. Some choices and consequences are temporal, and some are eternal. Why does that make you angry? I guess for the same reason someone who ran a stop sign, gets angry when they get a ticket. Those who run the stop sign with a cop watching, are predestined to get a ticket.

CenterPointEX

02-05-2006, 11:03 AM

Know CP...I'm likin your God less and less, the more you speak. Dude...I'll read Urantia a bit more. least they got a more realistic take than you appear to have. You're just "Real focused" CP. Have they Paved that ONE WAY Street you live on lately??
The strategy of the enemy has always been to conquer the minds of men, and sinful thinking is taking a fearful toll on our society. Witness some of the incredible positions being espoused by many of our leaders. As these ideas are implemented we see a decline in every area of life - from Clinton bangin interns in the white house, to Enron banging America, to Michael Jackson banging children. This is not a cause for despair, however; it is a warning that the church needs to wake up and bring more salt and light to our culture. As Christians, we are called to do more than just oppose these ideas. The Scriptures tell us that our weapons have divine power to demolish strongholds. We are to demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we are to "take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ" (2 Cor 10:4,5).

18"When the world hates you, remember it hated me before it hated you. 19The world would love you if you belonged to it, but you don't. I chose you to come out of the world, and so it hates you. 20Do you remember what I told you? `A servant is not greater than the master.' Since they persecuted me, naturally they will persecute you. And if they had listened to me, they would listen to you! 21The people of the world will hate you because you belong to me, for they don't know God who sent me. (John 15:18-21). And BTW...the sky is falling Chicken Little.

Swamprat

02-05-2006, 11:30 PM

The Scriptures tell us that our weapons have divine power to demolish strongholds. We are to demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we are to "take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ" (2 Cor 10:4,5).John 15:18-21)

So, there ya go.

That's what I've know bout you for a LONG time CP.

You're not takin anything for "thought" that is spoken here.
You're a one way street, and you will try to do nothing but...

"Demolish arguments, and any pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of god, and we are to take captive every thought to MAKE it Obedient to Christ".

Finally, what YOU really believe....AND...Nothing else. Preach on.....

I won't waste my time no more man. I can see it's NOT a discussion, it's just a Platform for you. You just feed of comments to spread YOUR belief. Not to THIS boy no more. You're a "One trick Pony" CP.

You take NO other opinions to heart to EVEN think about. You're what my daughter calls a "User".

Your Poster Child...finally gets ya. :-) :-)
I know, I know...I'm slow....I actually THINK bout shit....

Let's hear it for the God of Abraham!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The ONE and Only!

I know, I know.... I'm goin to hell.

See ya there. We'll "talk bout it". Cause, we're done talkin here.

CenterPointEX

02-06-2006, 07:31 PM

You're not takin anything for "thought" that is spoken here. You take NO other opinions to heart to EVEN think about. On the contrar... I do think about the things spoken here. I even examine the evidence. Swamp, your truth is based on your feelings, not on logic based on evidence. You feel very strongly about your truth. I can not argue with your feelings, your truth is your feelings... your feelings change... . It would be ludacris for me to say that you don't feel the way you do. But when you submit ideaologys, I examine the evidence upon which those ideas are based. Like Urantia, I have examined the evidence upon which your feelings are based. I have found the basis of Urantia wanting, in that the fella who wrote the book lied about it's source. The evidence proves that. I have examined the evidence upon which Buddists base their feelings... I have also found it wanting. Josheph Smith of the Mormans makes specific claims about an acient advanced civilization in North America. There are no records or archeological supports. The Book of Morman based on facts is B.S.
. . . I have also examined the evidence upon which the Bible is based. The Bible is the most documented book in history. You can go and examine the places where the acient civilizations existed. You can go look at the artifacts. You can read documents in the origional languages, unchanged for milleniums. The civilizations of which the Bible tells about, left recorded history. The evidence is endless and unrefutable. After examining the evidence one would have to be fool to say it was not truth.

. . . There is one religion though in which you can cast off guilt of any kind. A religion that claims all gods are the same. This religion allows free expression of self, sex, exploration. In fact, pride in self and self glorification are its tennants. It claims that faith in a single supreme god is not needed because you will one day be exaulted to god status your own self. Why submit yourself to some other gods rules, when you can be like him and make your own rules.

. . . Most recently its tennants are laid out in the Satanic Bible. But they were first outlined in Genisis chapter three.

. . . 1 Now Satan was a crafty being. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not partake of any Knowledge'?" 2 Thats not quite what God said, the woman said to Satan, "We may partake of knowledge in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not partake of the knowledge of good and evil, or you will die.' "

4(God is not like that, God is good) "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." (And then you can make your own decisions...about what is good or bad...right or wrong, then your feelings will determine truth)

6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the knowledge was good and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she partook. Then she shared this knowledge with her husband, who was with her, and he ingested it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they had become sinful and tried to hide, and cover up their bad deeds.

Swamprat

02-06-2006, 11:36 PM

Cp....................

CenterPointEX

02-07-2006, 08:48 PM

Hey Poster Child..., I know, I know..., I should know better but sometimes I just cain't help myself. I'm thinkin that poster of ya showing us your I.Q. is my favorite. Was that pic taken you in one of your former lifes?... Pray tell...Did the Buddist Monks tell you that you are closer, or farther away from Nirvanah in your current condition?Your Poster Child...finally gets ya. :-) :-)
I know, I know...I'm slow....I actually THINK bout shit.

Truth does have a way of demolishing lies...
Just like the body has ways of getting rid of the unusable stuff one ingests.
Every morning I am reminded that yesterday, I ingested some unusable stuff.

Swamprat

02-07-2006, 09:57 PM

Hey Poster Child..., I know, I know..., I should know better but sometimes I just cain't help myself. I'm thinkin that poster of ya showing us your I.Q. is my favorite. Was that pic taken you in one of your former lifes?... Pray tell...Did the Buddist Monks tell you that you are closer, or farther away from Nirvanah in your current condition?

Truth does have a way of demolishing lies...

My post "bothered" ya huh CP? Sorry man...That's my IQ. :p I can't help it...Blame my parents.

You go right on with your "Truth". You and I just got a "different take" on Truth.

porky

02-07-2006, 11:17 PM

SWAMP,

This is going back and forth like a high school fued. Ole CP is nothing more than a contract planter sowing some seed for harvest. He will not reap this wheat, but he will get credit for the plantin. Swamp I pray that the holy spirit will come down on you and convict your soul. We are all worthy of that hell that you say doesnt exist, all of us. The only thing I have is this Romans chapter 10 verse 9. This isnt a game Swamp please just read it. My god is so great every aspect of him cant be explained. I dont try to put myself on his level. We are all sinners saved and unsaved only those with thier trust and faith in Jesus will go to heaven. That isnt a free ticket to sin at will, but from the time you are saved the holy spirit dwells within and you will be convicted to seek Jesus.

CenterPointEX

03-18-2006, 08:27 AM

Thomas Jefferson was in charge of the board of education in Washington. Thomas Jefferson insisted on only two books that should be taught in Washington schools... The Bible... and Watts Hymnal? No, OGB the bible taught in Washington schools was not edited by Jeffersons razor... Yes Jefferson did edit a Bible with his razor... He wanted to see what was left after one took out all the supernatural... He was looking for the content of human reason in the Bible...

The evidence for the faith of our founding fathers is overwhelming and unrefutable... The evidence that we were founded as a Christian nation thus can not be denied. This country used the Bible as a text book in our public schools. The militant deChristianization of America is a recent phenomina. An attack by folks who want to shake off any sexual morality, that they may be free to express themselves sexually with any person, place, or thing, regaurdless of age race or gender...

Want to make em turn blue?... tell em that fecal matter introduced into the blood stream is not healthy under any circumstance.... then tell em this is an inevatable result of homosexual intercourse. The failure rate of condoms makes the risk factors unacceptable.

If you are a Christian... stand up and be counted this election year... It is crucial for all religions that desire to be free to worship as they please, to work to keep this nation under the rule of those who ascribe to Judeo\Christian morality... Because Judeo\Christian lays forth the bedrock that all men are created equal, endowed with inalienable rights given by that creator... That creator is honred in our constituion by the phrase
"In the year of our Lord"

Orgnizdlbr

03-18-2006, 08:42 AM

CP, we were discussing "seperation of church and state" it seems our posts were somehow removed. I believe you made reference to Jefferson holding religious services in the H of R , I responded with Supreme court case citing "Good news club v. Milford central school district" to rebutt your statement that no church services are held in public school builings. Your claim was that the builings are rented. I submit that New York City school buildings are used every Sunday for services at no cost. And that is in "Liberal New York City".

You also asked about the intent of Jefferson cutting his bible with a razor and what his intent was. The neo-con right winger Evangelicals will profess that the intent was to deliver "Red Letter" portions of the New Testament to the Indians in order to convert them to Christianity. That is a fiction of David Barton's imagination.

Jefferson believed that kings and clergy turned the teachings of Christ into "abracadabra". Jefferson removed the letters of paul, Jude, John, and Peter and removed all of the miracles of Jesus....he was left with a book that had no miracles, no resurection, no annunciation, and no virgin birth.

That is not to say Jefferson was not a believer, he was, but he was opposed to the corruptions of Christianity. He told John Adams that to discover the true teachings of Jesus one had to abstract his words "from the rubbish in whicch it is buried," which was "as seperable from that as the diamond in the dunghill."

So, the question remains, were the Framers intent on seperating Church and state? Was the Framers intent to protect both entities from the corruptions of the other? The framers were fully aware of what occurred in the Massachusetts Bay colony and the oppression upon all that were not members of the state sponsored religion. They were also fully aware of what went on in merry old England and the Anglican church. They intended to keep Church and state seperate.

James Madison, close confidant and collaborator of Jefferson, who would ascend to the Presidency wrote the Constitution. He purposly made it a Godless document. He understood the corruption of both entities.....
Read Madison's Federalist Paper 10, his intent on the role of the State is clear.

You again state that the Constitution has the word God within it, the year of our Lord. If that is your argument, it is on a very shaky foundation.

The fact of the matter CP, is that to this day we write the date with the quote AD. Today is March 18, 2006 AD. AD is short for Anno Domini Nostri Iesu Christu, "in the year of our Lord" it was the standard signature of the time and had nothing to do with including God within the text of or within the enumerated articles of the Constitution.

CenterPointEX

03-18-2006, 09:00 AM

In this day OGB, A.D. and B.C. are under assult, as well as " one naton under God" in the pledge, and our national motto, "In God We Trust" on our money..

The things that are being systematicly removed from public education, were there in Jeffersons day... Bible study, prayer, etc...

The evidence for the faith of our founding fathers is overwhelming and unrefutable... The evidence that we were founded as a Christian nation thus can not be denied. This country used the Bible as a text book in our public schools and its priciples were used as a model for our constitution.

The militant deChristianization of America is a recent phenomina.

In elementry school in the sixties, I learned of the plight of the pigrims, their faith in God, the importance of giving thanks to that God, the vision that God is involved in the day to day going ons of this world, and that God works thru those he has created... the Indians that helped the Pilgrims an example...

What do you make O.G.B., of Jeffersons insistance on the Bible and Watts Hymnal being taught in Washingtons public schools?

How does that affect of your belief that the Danbury letter gives credance to an interpretation of the 1st that prohibits just such a thing?

You make a point that concurs OGB, with the fact that The Year of our Lord refers to one Jesus Christ... reguardless to the reason why...

for this very reason anti Christian forces around the world are trying to change B.C. Before Christ... to B.C.E. ... Before Current Era.... etc.

Orgnizdlbr

03-18-2006, 10:46 AM

How does that affect of your belief that the Danbury letter gives credance to an interpretation of the 1st that prohibits just such a thing?

You make a point that concurs OGB, with the fact that The Year of our Lord refers to one Jesus Christ... reguardless to the reason why...

My belief in the intent of the Danbury letter is that Jefferson was reaffirming that the State would never interfere with religion, and vice versa, any other interpretation or extrapolation of the words contained in the letter is pure unmitigated conjecture.

I make no point that concurs CP, my point is the antithesis of your position. The phrase AD was and is a custom of the time and was not meant to inject God, religion, state sponsored religion, or any other form of Christianity in the government, plain and simple.

The evidence for the faith of our founding fathers is overwhelming and unrefutable... The evidence that we were founded as a Christian nation thus can not be denied. This country used the Bible as a text book in our public schools and its priciples were used as a model for our constitution.

Where does "Christian Nation" reside within the text of the Constitution? The Framers were very precise when drafting the document, would they leave out such an important phrase if it was intended to be a Christian Nation?

You imply that history is revised to shape a view that is anti Christ, I assert that it is people like David Barton, the great right wing evangilical who gives tours of the Capitol, that revises history. Who is right, who is wrong, do some research.....

Orgnizdlbr

03-18-2006, 11:21 AM

If you are a Christian... stand up and be counted this election year... It is crucial for all religions that desire to be free to worship as they please, to work to keep this nation under the rule of those who ascribe to Judeo\Christian morality... Because Judeo\Christian lays forth the bedrock that all men are created equal, endowed with inalienable rights given by that creator... That creator is honred in our constituion by the phrase

If you are an American....stand up and be counted...it is crucial to keep the "seperation of Church and state" intact. There is no room in government for the corruption of organized religion. There is no room in organized religion for the corruption of government.

The money injected into politics by so called Christian fundementalism is obscene, as obscene as is injected by any lobbying entity. Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell and the pope seem to live pretty well on the money that their respective congregations donate.....obscenity at its finast!

CenterPointEX

03-19-2006, 07:45 AM

Nature abhors a vacume... The church was planted, took root, and flourished in Europe... the church brought about a protracted period of peace and prosperity in Europe. Europe can no longer be considered christian... People have stopped going to church, stopped getting married, and stopped procreating. In order to rectify a negative population curve, Immigration laws have been loosened and Muslims escaping they tyrany of their Islam homalands are pouring in... Note the recent torching of Paris... By "Divine Province" or "Under the authority and protection of God", as stated in the opening line of the Declaration of Independance, America was born of Judeo Christian morals. It's goverment and laws were formed by men of Faith in Jesus Christ. These men modeled our constitution and goverment on biblical priciples, and based our laws on Judeo Christian morality. By the authority of those priciples and laws, all men are considered created equal with inalienable rights endowed to them by their creator. The creator refered to in our constituion "Our Lord" Jesus Christ... This country from the get go, operated under the guise of being a people of Judeo Christian herratige. The Bible was taught in public schools, teachers and kids prayed togather in the classroom, our family law mirrored that taught to us in the Bible. The family, one man, one woman in marriage raising and nuturing its children was the basic building block that made this country good and great. A Christian Nation tolerates and allows men under its jurisdiction to worship as they please... A Nation that does not operate under Judeo Christian principles, does not allow this kind of freedom... There is no nation on earth that operates under goverment formed by another religion be it Athiestic, Agnostic, Islamic, Hindue, or otherwise where these kinds of freedoms are available...
"Seperation of Church and State" as it is being currently defined by folks like yourself O.G.B., is a recent phenomenon that has come to its own in the last fifty years... If that for which you beat the drums comes to pass O.G.B., if all link to Judeo Christian morality is removed from our government, laws, education system, and national identity, then we will become a nation of people who are governed by religion other than of faith in "Our Creator", "Our Lord" Jesus Christ... be it Agnostic, Athiestic, Hellenistic, Islamic, or otherwise... But unlike under the rule of Judeo/Christian morality, in the case of any other reigning religion,no ideology but that of the current reigning religion will be tolerated... Simply look at the history of womens rights under any other ideology through out history.

Ya.... vote for an Agnostic, Atheistic America... Vote to remove any trace of Judeo/Christian values and principles from all public forums, laws, courtyards, city halls, pledges, mottos, family structures, professional and medical ethics etc... Outlaw the preaching of Romans 1:26 like other Agnostic controlled countries have done...
Yes...Outlaw salt... that which a Christian is called to be, a preservative, preventative of rot and decay and America will begin to rot from the inside out..."Can't happen" you say! Look around you fellow Americans... It already is... Gay pride parades; the poster children of rot and decay, are an example of us celebrating evil abominations... These folks dip thier tool of hope in a pile of feces... Truly they reap what they sow... or do they sow rot and decay into that which they rip? Ya, a little salt would burn, but it would kill infection...

... ... ... The Ideaology that this is all there is... that there is no life after death... is generating hoplessness in the American Phyce... Evident in the morality of our youth and our CEOs...

Viva la Survival of the Fittest...

Yes, stand up and be counted... Vote for an Agnostic America... That will be the Day!

"In that Day"... If you are a Christian, you will know the meaning of the phrase "In that Day"

Orgnizdlbr

03-19-2006, 11:20 AM

"Seperation of Church and State" as it is being currently defined by folks like yourself O.G.B., is a recent phenomenon that has come to its own in the last fifty years...

Is that so? Well if that is the case, show me some tangible evidence, not the Neo-Con Evengilical rewriting of history.

I believe it is the other way around CP, there was no God on US currenecy until 1863, there was no God in the pledge of allegiance until the year after I was born, 1954. So it is folks like me that rewrite the intent of history? I dont think so.

In 1793, a critic of Thomas Jefferson, a Rev. Mason of New York stated that "from the Constitution of the United States, it is impossible to ascertain what God we worship, or whether we own a God at all." IN 1793, 6 years after ratification of the document, but folks like me are twisting history?

Delegates from the National Reform Association presented President Abraham Lincoln with a proposal to amend the preamble of the Constitution to acknowledge God and the Lord Jesus Christ as governor among nations, that was in 1864, Lincoln politely dismissed the Association and he never acted on the proposal.

So who is it that assaults the Constitution? Is it people like me? People who hold in high regard the intent of the Framers? I know most of the men who were the Framers were Christians. The fact that the Framers were Christian amplifies the fact that they were smart enough to understand that government and religion are seperate. They were close enough to the burnings at the stake in the colonies like Massachussetts of people who did not conform or agree with the state sponsored religion. They knew better than to draft a document recognizing any state invovment in religion.

BTW, an 82 year crusade by the National Reform Assoc., was picked up by the Nat. Assoc. of Evangilicals in 1945. Twice, in 1947 and 1954, it staged unsuccsessful campaigns to add to the Constitution the words "This nation divinely recognizes the authority and law of Jesus Christ, Savior and Ruler of Nations, through whom are bestowed the blessings of Almighty God." So it is people like myself that are attempting to change the intent of the Constitution?

In a very shrewd and calculated reversal of its position the Christian right has totally reversed its strategy. In a staggering flip flop, it now cele